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  1. #81
    Senior Member Killjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynamiteninja View Post
    Good, good, but reasons?
    Well, Flaubert was an introvert, as well as a notorious perfectionist (which isn't inherent to just INTJs, I know), but he seemed driven to reaching some ideal perfection in his work, and his novels have a foreboding element to them, as if their inevitable conclusions had been predetermined.
    Although he's often associated with naturalism, he had a bent toward romanticism and from his letters, it's apparent that he was a very conceptual person - I would say these hint toward INxJ.

    The reason I go with INTJ, is because his prose is impersonal, pessimistic, and at times, employs a very caustic wit, and based on his hatred for the bourgeois (and almost any form of social Utilitarianism), as well as his convictions toward government and religious concerns, suggest Fi.

    (not to mention his infatuation with prostitutes indicate inferior Se)


    Rimbaud is difficult to type, because there seems to be three personalities for him. From accounts I've read of his personality, he appears to be a very caustic, cruel, charismatic yet unlikeable ENTP. Yet, he writes like an INFP. But, the older Rimbaud, who dismissed his poetry and became a merchant trading weapons in Ethiopia, seems like an IxTJ.


    As for Hopkins, I want to say INFJ - Due to the fact he became a Jesuit and that there seems to be an abundance of emotion in his poetry.


    I'll add one more: Flannery O'Connor - INTJ (I'm pretty certain of this one).

  2. #82
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    Rethinking Joyce: In Ulysses, Bloom's message is "to love". Doesn't that seem Fe? Would an INFP embrace this, or more precisely, proclaim it as a "message"? I do realize I may be too general, but it should be considered. But then again, Stephen Daedalus in Portrait does seem like an unhealthy INFP. And Portrait was based on Joyce's life. What do you think?

  3. #83
    Man for all seasons dynamiteninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotr246 View Post
    Rethinking Joyce: In Ulysses, Bloom's message is "to love". Doesn't that seem Fe? Would an INFP embrace this, or more precisely, proclaim it as a "message"? I do realize I may be too general, but it should be considered. But then again, Stephen Daedalus in Portrait does seem like an unhealthy INFP. And Portrait was based on Joyce's life. What do you think?
    All I'm certain on is that Joyce is xNFx, Ulysses seems the work of an ENFP perhaps, but the semi-autobiographical Portrait makes him seem INFP, which I thought takes precedent. For the Fe messgae though, maybe for Ulysses Joyce was in touch with his INFJ side for it? Or maybe he's just a damn good writer able to write from the perspective of other types? Which bring us back to him being an INFP really, as only Portrait is (semi-)autobiographical.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynamiteninja View Post
    All I'm certain on is that Joyce is xNFx, Ulysses seems the work of an ENFP perhaps, but the semi-autobiographical Portrait makes him seem INFP, which I thought takes precedent. For the Fe messgae though, maybe for Ulysses Joyce was in touch with his INFJ side for it? Or maybe he's just a damn good writer able to write from the perspective of other types? Which bring us back to him being an INFP really, as only Portrait is (semi-)autobiographical.
    Actually, now I'm not so sure he "portrays" Stephen as an INFP. Joyce almost approaches his work at a conceptual level. Throughout each section, Stephen matures, and so does his language. Joyce seems to be showing how language creates our sense of consciousness. And then when Stephen leaves his community in the end, he's not leaving for personal reasons, but because he cannot find expression for his art, and ultimately himself. Upon leaving he expresses this: "forge in the smithy of my soul the uncreated conscience of my race." This seems FJ. For now, I'm going to say xNFJ, but he's unlike many of the other writers we've typed so far on this list as that...or actually maybe he's not.

  5. #85
    Man for all seasons dynamiteninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotr246 View Post
    Actually, now I'm not so sure he "portrays" Stephen as an INFP. Joyce almost approaches his work at a conceptual level. Throughout each section, Stephen matures, and so does his language. Joyce seems to be showing how language creates our sense of consciousness. And then when Stephen leaves his community in the end, he's not leaving for personal reasons, but because he cannot find expression for his art, and ultimately himself. Upon leaving he expresses this: "forge in the smithy of my soul the uncreated conscience of my race." This seems FJ. For now, I'm going to say xNFJ, but he's unlike many of the other writers we've typed so far on this list as that...or actually maybe he's not.
    Yeah it's weird because you put forward a really good argument, but Joyce really does not seem to fit in to the INFJ/ENFJ lists. I think that the INFP (maybe ENFP) ones suit him better. Plus Stephen is not necessarily Joyce. Only, Portrait draws heavily from Joyce's childhood experiences.
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynamiteninja View Post
    Yeah it's weird because you put forward a really good argument, but Joyce really does not seem to fit in to the INFJ/ENFJ lists. I think that the INFP (maybe ENFP) ones suit him better. Plus Stephen is not necessarily Joyce. Only, Portrait draws heavily from Joyce's childhood experiences.
    That's what I thought too. That he's not really like the other writers in INFJ/ENFJ. Ulysses seems like Intuition gone mad, though. Whether it's Ni or Ne he expresses I'm not sure. Thanks for your responses.

    One more thing! But I may be over-generalizing. Portrait, as a semi-autiobiography, to me, seems to be the expression of a concept. I would think an INFP who would write an autobiography would want to write for the sole reason of self-expression. The end each type seeks in writing seems completely different. I could be way wrong with this, though.

  7. #87
    Man for all seasons dynamiteninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotr246 View Post
    That's what I thought too. That he's not really like the other writers in INFJ/ENFJ. Ulysses seems like Intuition gone mad, though. Whether it's Ni or Ne he expresses I'm not sure. Thanks for your responses.

    One more thing! But I may be over-generalizing. Portrait, as a semi-autiobiography, to me, seems to be the expression of a concept. I would think an INFP who would write an autobiography would want to write for the sole reason of self-expression. The end each type seeks in writing seems completely different. I could be way wrong with this, though.
    Always good to debate these things. Even if it's just ruminating, we more firmly established Joyce's INFPness perhaps, and addressed other possiblities. This kind of thing is why I started this thread!

    Perhaps, but he seems very much an NF to me. And remember, the guy is a genius.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotr246 View Post
    Rethinking Joyce: In Ulysses, Bloom's message is "to love". Doesn't that seem Fe? Would an INFP embrace this, or more precisely, proclaim it as a "message"? I do realize I may be too general, but it should be considered. But then again, Stephen Daedalus in Portrait does seem like an unhealthy INFP. And Portrait was based on Joyce's life. What do you think?
    Point to Point Navigation: A Memoir was what made me think Gore Vidal is Fi/Ne/Si. In his historical novels, such as Burr, he focuses more on personality than on events. Events are there an he careful to be acurate and to note when he has not been acurate but it's the people who are the heart of the work, portrayed in vivid nuaince and detail, they are alive for us. This makes me think he is a Feeler.

    excerpt of review on Amazon:

    he essentially lets his memories flow at will, often revisiting yet again the stories of his Washington childhood. The general focus, however, is on the latter half of his life, particularly the deaths of those closest to him, including his longtime companion, Howard Auster.

    Yet Vidal changes subjects and tone so frequently and abruptly—here tender, here combative—that the family memories and celebrity anecdotes become scattershot, limping to a close with a bizarre summary of somebody else's theory about how organized crime bosses ordered the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

  9. #89
    Man for all seasons dynamiteninja's Avatar
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    INFP
    Homer
    Virgil
    Miguel de Cervantes
    William Shakespeare
    John Keats
    François-René de Chateaubriand
    Washington Irving
    Emily Bronte
    Mary Shelley
    Harriet Beecher Stowe
    Walt Whitman
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
    Herman Melville
    Henry James
    James Joyce
    Virginia Woolf
    E M Forster
    Aldous Huxley
    George Orwell
    Albert Camus
    Jack Kerouac
    Herman Hesse
    John Steinbeck
    Charlotte Perkins Gilman
    Willa Cather
    Tennessee Williams
    Eugene O'Neill
    Jean Rhys
    A A Milne
    Hans Christian Andersen
    Beatrix Potter
    Leon Bloy
    Marcel Proust
    Thomas Mann
    J D Salinger
    Kazuo Ishiguro
    Chuck Palahniuk
    Sebastien Faulks
    Zadie Smith
    Yukio Mishima
    Bret Easton Ellis
    Alan Moore
    Alex Garland
    David Foster Wallace
    Terry Pratchett
    Arthur Miller
    Neil Gaiman
    Haruki Murakami
    Terry Brooks
    Madeleine L'Engle
    Jay McInerney
    Harper Lee
    James Herriot
    Douglas Coupland
    Dylan Thomas
    Alice Walker
    Lu Xun
    Italo Calvino
    Gabriel Garcia Marquez
    Allen Ginsberg
    Gore Vidal
    Michael Ondaatje
    Chinua Achebe
    Dave Eggers
    Maya Angelou
    Stephen King
    Paul Auster
    Novalis
    Pat Conroy
    Robert Frost
    William Hazlitt
    W B Yeats
    Stephen Chbosky
    Carson McCullers
    Thomas De Quincey
    Anna Sewell
    Hubert Selby Jr
    Irvine Welsh


    INFJ
    Geoffrey Chaucer
    Dante
    Goethe
    John Milton
    William Blake
    Leo Tolstoy
    Emily Dickinson
    Robert Burns
    Robert Louis Stevenson
    George Eliot
    Nathaniel Hawthorne
    Nella Larsen
    Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    Joseph Conrad
    G K Chesterton
    Charles Peguy
    Simone De Beauvoir
    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
    W Somerset Maugham
    Anthony Burgess
    Graham Greene
    Vladimir Nabokov
    Harold Pinter
    Gabriel Marcel
    Guy Gavriel Kay
    Stephen R. Donaldson
    Piers Anthony
    William Faulkner
    Kurt Vonnegut
    Tom Wolfe
    Franz Kafka
    Salman Rushdie
    Anne Rice
    Dan Brown
    Milan Kundera
    Ian McEwan
    Angela Carter
    Tom Stoppard
    Agatha Christie
    Gerard Manley Hopkins


    INTJ
    Jonathan Swift
    Jane Austen
    C S Lewis
    T S Eliot
    Ayn Rand
    Samuel Beckett
    Michael Crichton
    Cormac McCarthy
    Philip Pullman
    Ernst Jünger
    Norman MacLean
    Wallace Stevens
    William S. Burroughs
    Ursula Le Guin
    Gustave Flaubert
    Ted Hughes
    Philip Larkin
    Frederick Douglass
    Alexander Pope
    J G Ballard
    Flannery O'Connor
    Juvenal
    Henry Fielding


    INTP
    Samuel Taylor Coleridge
    Henry David Thoreau
    Joseph Heller
    Philip K Dick
    Isaac Asimov
    Martin Amis
    Thomas Pynchon
    Kingsley Amis
    William Gaddis
    Evelyn Waugh
    Lemony Snicket
    Will Self
    Edgar Allen Poe
    Donald Barthelme
    Robert A Heinlein
    H P Lovecraft
    J M Coetzee
    Umberto Eco
    Neal Stephenson
    Margaret Atwood
    J R R Tolkien
    P G Wodehouse


    ENFP
    Charles Dickens
    Mark Twain
    Charlotte Bronte
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    Alexander Pushkin
    D H Lawrence
    Edith Wharton
    L. Ron Hubbard
    Ken Kesey
    Joseph Campbell
    Tom Robbins
    Henry Miller
    John Updike
    Orson Scott Card
    Upton Sinclair
    Joan Didion
    Alexander Dumas
    J K Rowling


    ENTP
    Thomas More
    Christopher Marlowe
    Lord Byron
    Lewis Caroll
    Oscar Wilde
    Truman Capote
    Hunter S Thompson
    Douglas Adams
    Hilaire Belloc
    Ray Bradbury
    Roald Dahl
    Diana Wynne Jones
    Voltaire


    ISFJ
    William Wordsworth
    Alfred, Lord Tennyson
    Louisa May Alcott
    John Betjeman
    Sylvia Plath
    John Irving
    Seamus Heaney
    Thomas Hardy
    Samuel Richardson


    ISFP
    Percy Shelley
    Laura Ingalls Wilder
    Anaïs Nin
    Ian Fleming
    Nick Hornby
    Jeanette Winterson
    Daphne Du Maurier


    ENTJ
    Jack London
    George Bernard Shaw
    Carl Sagan
    Frank Herbert
    Daniel Defoe


    ESTP
    F Scott Fitzgerald
    Ernest Hemingway
    Norman Mailer


    ENFJ
    Ivan Turgenev
    Toni Morrison
    Enid Blyton


    ISTJ
    Ben Jonson
    Samuel Johnson
    William Wycherley


    ISTP
    Dan Simmons
    Last edited by dynamiteninja; 04-30-2009 at 03:28 PM.
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  10. #90
    Man for all seasons dynamiteninja's Avatar
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    William Shakespeare could be ENFP.
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