Celebrity Chefs

[Stanton Moore]

Nigella Lawson is just sexy...her voice is hypnotic too..

 

[Eric B]

Hi Eric,
No disrespect. But I have to agree to disagree with you. Here's why:

All of the SJ types are called: The Guardians or the Traditionalists. They
believe in conforming to a system that is already in place and being apart
of that system. The cooks, chefs, judges on Food Network and on the
cooking shows of the PBS CreateTV network are mostly SJs. And being
any SJ type means having Si (Introverted Sensing). Introverted Sensor
types care about making sure what is in the present conforms to what
they remember from the past. Cooking is one of the traditional/guardian
ways to recreate something from the past into present.

The majority of the population is SJ type, with SP coming in second.
NF is 3rd with NT coming in dead last.

Traits of Introverted Sensing types (SJ types):

- Loves cooking amateur or professional (CHEF)
- Loves to watch sports on TV or in a stadium/arena (However, hates participating)
- Loves to compare past events taken in thru the 5-senses with what is current/present.
- Loves to accumulate flashy objects/possessions for showing off (sounds Se, but is actually Si-Te-Ne combo)
(SJ men like sporty/flashy cars that are usually older models vehicles to attract attention/mate)

There are other types that have Si, but its much weaker in those outside of the SJ temperment:

- INFP (Si is #3)
- ENFP (Si is #4)
- INTP (Si is #3)
- ENTP (Si is #4)

There are no Si types in the SP temperment. SPs are all Extroverted Sensor types. Extroverted
Sensing is very different (Se):

- Lives in the Moment (The Here -and- Now)
- Does NOT care about the past or the future.
- Lives in the great outdoors/everything outside
- Loves PARTICIPATING in sports/outdoor activities. (not caring about WATCHING sports)
- Likes to Gamble / Risk Taker / Takes Chances / Bends the Rules
- 'Rules are just Guidelines'
- Adventurous / Traveler
- Likes to be UP close and personal (In Your Face mentality)
- Can be Fearless
- Likes outdoor hobbies
- Likes exercising outdoors / bike rides / jogging-running / in the parks & trails

*OASN* One weird little quirk I have noticed with ESTJs. Maybe its just the ones I know.
They appear to have a Spontaneous side to them. A tiny little 'Living-In-The-Moment' in
them. I think I know where its coming from. I think its their Extroverted Intuition (Ne).
Even though ESTJs have Ne as their #3 function, which is weaker. I see it some of the time
in my ESTJ co-worker (Who is NOT a supervisor/manager, thank god). She is so mean,
vicious, calious, so Si dominate with NO nearly no feeling function. She can not improvise
on anything. Everything has to be done by-the-book, and in sequence. If you violate that,
watch out. She will: SNAP-YOU-OUT, per say. She gets under people's skin with her must
do everything according to the posted guidelines at all times, and you will not deviate. Or risk her
fury. This is why I am certain of Gordon Ramsey being ESTJ. Not ENTJ. I have an ENTJ boss.
He is a good manager at my workplace. He is HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). He is to the point,
cuts thru the chase, polite, soft spoken, understanding, willing to give to get. He is willing to bend
the rules if it will result in more productivity. ESTJs will NOT bend the rules or allow the rules to
be bent <period>. ESTJ's motto is: Conform to the System and get back to work.

The ESTJ I work with. She is a vicious B****. Gordon Ramsey is a cruel, vicious B******.

SJ types make the best homemakers, especially with the wife duties. Cooking. Cleaning.
etc. They do have their place in society and working under an established system. I think
it has everything to do with Si (Introverted Sensing). I think most female SJ types are the
ones with the stronger FEELING side: ISFJ & ESFJ. This is typical of what I see at home
and at work:

- I have (2) ISFJ sister-in-laws
- I have (1) ESFJ female co-worker
- I have (1) ESTJ female co-worker (She is so hated by many)
(I pray to god that my female ESTJ co-worker never becomes a supervisor/manager)

Most of the male SJs are the ISTJ & ESTJ. Which is why women constantly tell the
majority of men in our society: You men are JERKS!!!! SJs dominate society. And
men dominate in the SJ catagory. So, there you go.

I think Rachael Ray has Si. I personally think she is an ENFP rather than an ESFJ or
ENTP. The ENTPs I know are skinny little twigs (body frame is very small, very tiny,
very petite) with Si as the #4 function. My niece is an ENTP, she is the skinniest
little thing. Rachael Ray has a nice more rounded body frame. I will not lean
towards Si as the #4 weakest function in Rachael. So, she is not ENTP.

Cooking is very dominate in Rachael. I think like-wise, Si is DOMINATE in her which
would make her a Guardian/Traditionalist. A 'guardian' of the established system.
Traditional type homemaker. She is Extroverted. And she has that strong female
like quality of strong FEELING that seems extroverted too. So, I say ESFJ. As ESFJ
she does have Ne as #3, so she can be Spontaneous with the weaker Extroverted
Intuition just as my co-worker ESTJ shows. Ne can be spontaneous and
'Living-in-the-Moment'-Like.

Sorry, but that's an awful lot of generalization. All chefs don't have to be Guardians or use Si.
Also, you're saying she's both ENFP and ESFJ.
She seems to be a very “in the moment” kind of person. Anyone can reference the past. That doesn't make them an Si “user”.

 

[toddha]

Rachael Ray is all about value

Sorry, but that's an awful lot of generalization. All chefs don't have to be Guardians or use Si.
Also, you're saying she's both ENFP and ESFJ.
She seems to be a very “in the moment” kind of person. Anyone can reference the past. That doesn't make them an Si “user”.

Ok. I did not say ALL chefs are Guardians. I said most. The greater majority of the Professional Chefs.

I also said both ENFP and ESFJ. I know. I kept trying to juggle which one. I had a hard time trying to come to the
decision as to which one she is. As most people do. When I think about her taking her cooking profession seriously,
very seriously may I add. I have to conclude that COOKING is dominate in her blood. So (Si) is dominate in her
blood. So she would have to be ESFJ. Because ENFPs have Si as dead-last (Inferior function). Its the so-called:
WEAKEST-LINK. And Si is very closely tied to the traditional cooking profession. Look at the fictional character
of Marie Barone of Everybody Loves Raymond.

She is the TRADITIONAL homemaker. She is OBSESSED with her two sons' lives and her family. That
is strong Extroverted Feeling. She is one of the best cooks, has a large number of stashed recipes
that her daughter-in-law Deborah Barone constantly wants to gain access to. Marie's strong desire
to please her family at all times and feed them the best food makes her a STRONG (Si) as a Guardian.
She is without any doubt what so ever an ESFJ. She is so obsessed with the lives of her sons, to the
point of BI-POLARISM. It makes her alittle loopy-loony (Crazy). And her character on the show
actually displays this bi-polar/crazy behavior in the story line of the show.

Ok. So you still don't believe Rachael Ray is stronger Si rather than Se? Ok. Let's think about this:

One of her TV shows on Food Network. Its called: $40.00 a day. What does she do in this show?

She goes on a tiny adventure from lounge to lounge looking for the biggest bang for her buck for food,
we agree on this right? Ok, so think about that for a minute. What is the principal here guiding her
on her adventure from one store to the next? VALUE. Biggest bang for the buck. She knows what
the prices of most foods should be at all times because she has done this before in the past, time
and time again. Everytime she goes grocery shopping for the best value, she is using what
function to achieve the best result? Si, of course coupled with her weak Ti. A person with strong
Si is going to be the BEST shopper when it comes to VALUE and be rewarded with the biggest bang
for the buck. This does not mean that a Se person can not shop, just means they are not going to
probably be as good at getting the BEST VALUES. They might have to work much harder to get the
same result. They will drain themselves quickly and be exhausted in no time at all. Someone
with strong dominate Si will have the better shopping skills than any person with dominate Se. And
the Si dominate will use very little energy doing that task. A person with strong Se must use more
energy and work harder to do the same thing. Which means value shopping with DRAIN them.

A person with dominate SE does not care about getting the maximum bang for the buck because
a dominate SE does not care about the PAST or the FUTURE. They are LIVING IN THE HERE AND
NOW. Price/value would not mean much to the dominate SE type. A dominate SE type would have
to use other functions to achieve the result of getting the best value out of shopping. Which means
they will have to use several functions together. Or worse still, they would have to call upon Si as
a SHADOW function. This will drain the energy of the dom-SE type quicker. SHADOW functions are
the worse choice because they do not develop til later in their lives and even when they are developed,
they are WEAKER than your #4 INFERIOR function. So SHADOW functions drain energy from you
faster still. SHADOW functions are unreliable and can not be counted on to be available any
time you need them.

Rachael Ray does NOT get drained easily when she is on her adventure looking for the maximum
bang for the buck on the $40.00 a day TV show. Because she is looking for VALUE based on prior
trends that she has observed/taken in with her 5-senses, I can conclude she has Si, not Se. She
does not loose much energy by doing her walking adventure, always looking for the best VALUE.
This would be Si, NOT Se. Dom-SE would not care about value. Dom-SE does not care about
the cheapest price. That's why dominate SE types are known as GAMBLERS, RISK TAKERS.
Dom-SE types would pay high prices to enjoy the moment (living in the moment) in the outside
world. Rachael Ray is about VALUE/CHEAP price.

One more thing: Her show $40.00 a day. She moves around from one store to the next, which
offers something completely different. This is a sign of Extroverted Intuition (Ne). Ne can be bouncy,
scatter brained, short attention span. Ni settles on a singular idea. People with SE have Ni.
Which means if Rachael Ray has Ni, she would bounce around from one similar store to another
similar store, which would offer similar or the same goods/services. But anyone that watches
the show knows that she does not do that.

 

[Eric B]

When you say "VALUE", you are speaking of JUDGMENT, for another word for "judgment" is "eVALUation".
I believe what you describe there is auxiliary Ti, and another good evidence of her as a Thinker. (with internalized standards for the logical evaluation). Finding cheaper values is LOGICal! It's not Sensory.
Si would only provide an internal storehouse of knowledge of how to find good deals. It does not itself evaluate; it only takes in and filters the information.
While Se by itself would not care about maximum value, it is the auxiliary Ti that provides the rational assessment, and she is in her 40's, so it will be well developed and mature.

Hopping from store to store also sounds like Se. I've never really watched that show, so I don't know the details of what she's doing, but I've had explained to me that Se deals in "possibilities" as well. Possibilities of what's tangibly present, rather than conceptualizations of what could be. Does she set out saying "I wonder what each store charges, or which one is cheaper?", and then make the leap into the 'unknown'; or does she know what the stores charge, and simply pick out of them the most possible cheapest deals? That would be Se.

Raymond's mother is an ESTJ (Choleric Melancholy), and her sense of family would be what is more Si; not Fe. That's obviously at the bottom of her unconscious (#8 "Demonic Personality"), as she does not really merge with the personal values of the environment around her; she tries to force her own [semi-conscious] values (inferior Fi) through impersonal control (dom. Te; including ordering the environment such as cooking, etc).
Female STJ's often look a lot like Feelers.

You say they're both the same type, but they are very different from each other. They are both EST "In Charge" Interaction Style, but Rache has more of a people-focus and light-and-airiness because of the P, where Raymond's mother is a strictly task-focused TJ who only uses people for her goals.

 

[toddha]

When you say "VALUE", you are speaking of JUDGMENT, for another word for "judgment" is "eVALUation".
I believe what you describe there is auxiliary Ti, and another good evidence of her as a Thinker. (with internalized standards for the logical evaluation). Finding cheaper values is LOGICal! It's not Sensory.
Si would only provide an internal storehouse of knowledge of how to find good deals. It does not itself evaluate; it only takes in and filters the information.
While Se by itself would not care about maximum value, it is the auxiliary Ti that provides the rational assessment, and she is in her 40's, so it will be well developed and mature.

Hopping from store to store also sounds like Se. I've never really watched that show, so I don't know the details of what she's doing, but I've had explained to me that Se deals in "possibilities" as well. Possibilities of what's tangibly present, rather than conceptualizations of what could be. Does she set out saying "I wonder what each store charges, or which one is cheaper?", and then make the leap into the 'unknown'; or does she know what the stores charge, and simply pick out of them the most possible cheapest deals? That would be Se.

Raymond's mother is an ESTJ (Choleric Melancholy), and her sense of family would be what is more Si; not Fe. That's obviously at the bottom of her unconscious (#8 "Demonic Personality"), as she does not really merge with the personal values of the environment around her; she tries to force her own [semi-conscious] values (inferior Fi) through impersonal control (dom. Te; including ordering the environment such as cooking, etc).
Female STJ's often look a lot like Feelers.

You say they're both the same type, but they are very different from each other. They are both EST "In Charge" Interaction Style, but Rache has more of a people-focus and light-and-airiness because of the P, where Raymond's mother is a strictly task-focused TJ who only uses people for her goals.

>>

Well, it seems to me you are THEORY based. Ok, that is fine. Let me explain a few about myself. Tiny bit theory, mostly real-world:

- I am an INFJ (real-world).
- INFJs are great at determining personality types of those around them (Actually, I am a walking/talking expert on this subject in the real-world).
- I am a 911/Police Dispatcher for a large city. My work place is a room full of EXTROVERTs. And most of
those are indeed Dominate Sensing types, mix of Si and Se dominate types. Which is pretty typical of what
you'd expect in a society dominated by EXTROVERTs and dominated by the SENSING types.
- I am surrounded on all sides by these types every single day ; for half of my life. I know these folks (sensors).
- I know what makes them tick inside-out. I am only 1 of a handful of INTROVERTs. And of those INTROVERTs,
even fewer INTUITIVE types. We INTROVERTS/INTUITIVES are RARE at my work. And my work place is a
great representation of our society as a whole.
- I am in a room with 15-20 people on a nightly basis. Almost everyday. It is a office-like job, complete with
cubicals. My job is the easiest one I have ever done in my life. Its quite remarkable how my job fulfills so many
of the sought after traits that INFJ types seek in their lives:

911/Dispatch offers INFJs the ability to:
-- Help citizens in their time of need by answering 911 calls (One-On-One interaction via 911 phones)
-- Help police officers keep the peace on the streets of a rather violent city (One-On-One interaction via police radio)
-- Make a difference in people's lives. Its a public service/public safety job. That can get very stressful, at times.
-- The demands can be overwhelming to some. But not for me, usually. The only thing about my job that I do not
like is the DETAILS. Sometimes there can be so many DETAILS involved. And it can trip me up as an INFJ with
weak inferior Extroverted Sensing. Extroverted Sensing does not give a damn about DETAILS. Introverted Intuition
does not care about alot of details. Its mostly worried about the BIG PICTURE. So DETAILS can trip me up. But I have
learned to cope with it. Actually, I just turned 41 years old. And my SHADOW functions seem to be showing some
presence in me finally. This works out well, because I now care about coupons for the first time in my life. And saving
money at the grocery store finally makes sense to me. Before age 39, I never cared about it. I never used coupons,
I never checked the ADs for grocery stores online looking for the best bargains before I left the house. I just
made a list of things I needed and went and got them. Regardless of cost, value. Now, all of the sudden, it matters.
And it really mattters now. I am glad my SHADOW reared its ugly head...

OASN: Every single Si type at my workplace clips coupons while we are not busy. It is amazing to me. The ESTJ,
The ESFJs. They all do it. Not a single Se type does this. Of course the Dom-Se types at my work are all younger than
me. So their SHADOW Si function has not kicked in. For me, it seems to have finally kick started into gear. Now
that I am 41. Thank you SHADOW functions. I needed that. I shop very consciously now. Before age 39, I did
not care about it at all.

So...
I am around alot of people on a daily basis. Mostly the types we are talking about in this thread. I know them well.
I know what makes them tick. Its NOT theory for me. Its real-world. Anyway, I'm going to stop. INTPs are the
master THEORISTS. Not really concrete real-world based. So, I end it on that note.

 

[Eric B]

SJ's might clip coupons, because of how they were taught to shop. That doesn't mean SP's will never do it, and we weren't talking about coupons; you mentioned Rachel Ray going to different stores for cheaper prices. That might not be any such Si-esque "rote"; she probably knew about the deals, and just went after them.
This is all "theory" about things that occur in the "real world".

 

[toddha]

SJ's might clip coupons, because of how they were taught to shop. That doesn't mean SP's will never do it, and we weren't talking about coupons; you mentioned Rachel Ray going to different stores for cheaper prices. That might not be any such Si-esque "rote"; she probably knew about the deals, and just went after them.
This is all "theory" about things that occur in the "real world".

>>

Look. I'm done. I've had 2 decades (20 years, that's HALF of my life) of seeing the BIG PICTURE of these SENSOR types at my work. I am an INFJ. My Ni operates like a JACK HAMMER in my mind all of the time. 20 years of being around those people. And seeing the patterns in them. I know dominate SENSORS better than I know dominate INTUITIVES (also INTROVERTS) because of how rare we are. I can SPEED READ a person in seconds. Not minutes like it would take most people because they have to use their THINKING function. I can do it in seconds thanks to my Ni. Just last night at my work, one of our 2 TVs at my workplace was on FOOD NETWORK. And I was sitting there SPEED READING everyone on the show which was a competition show with a panel of 3 judges. And I was verbally saying aloud what their personality type is. Just seconds after they appeared on the screen. And I was even guessing who was going to WIN at the end of the show. And I was RIGHT, everytime. My co workers witnessed this. Some of them were even asking me questions: Todd, what's an ISTJ? What's an ESFJ? What's an ISFJ? What's an ESTJ?

One of the judges on that show was female, with black hair & a red dress. I instantly could see ESFJ in her. I did not have to think about it. I knew. Another judge on the show was an older woman with a bleach BLONDE hair (ultra short, spike-like). I knew immediately she was an ISFJ.
I mean jeez. You kinda have to have Si in you if you are a JUDGE for a food show. Because Si is all about DETAILS. The FINE DETAILS. You have to have a function where your 5-senses can pick out the most sutle, slight differences in:

- taste
- smell
- appearance

That's Si all the way buddy. Se is not that way. Judges & professional Cooks on Food Network are dom-Si types. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Then later on, Iron Chef America came on, and the oriental guy at the beginning of the show. I immediatelly knew he was an ESFJ. There was a male participant cook with a mohawk. I knew immediately he was an ISFJ. There was another announcer on the show, skinny guy, very expressionless face. I knew he was an ISTJ, all the way.

Again, these are things I do NOT think about. These are things I just know.

One more thing to send your way, then I'm done:

- You mentioned that coupons and savings/value is more of a JUDGING function. Ok. Then explain away a theory as to why my Introverted Thinking (Ti) developed mostly on-time. For me it developed between 18-33 years old. Its what turned me into a little bit of a geek and allowed me to program in 7 different computer languages and that demanded for many years that I build my own computers from scratch. Yeah, I'm a geek thanks to my Ti. But up-and-til age 39 (long after my Ti was already in place), I did not care about saving money? I did care about coupons, value? You're saying its JUDGEMENT based? My Ti was fully developed. Why did IT wait til mid-life to turn me into a coupon clipper? The most likely explanation: The SHADOW functions started to show up in me. That's what happens at mid-life. The so-called 'MID-LIFE' crisis. It rears its ugly head and turns a person's life upside down by trying to turn the person into something they have NEVER BEEN most of their life. There is a good book out there on this subject called: WAS THAT ME? You can find it on Amazon or Barnes & Noble. Its about the Mid-Life crisis and how a person's SHADOW functions can transform a person into something they have never been. OASN: My SHADOW includes the Si function.

When I think of my sudden interest in saving money, coupon clipping, value shopping. I think of my SHADOW. To quote an old time radio show from the early half of the 20th century: 'The Shadow Knows'..... It just knows. I do not have to THINK/THEORIZE about it. 'I just know', says the Dom-Ni...

 

[toddha]

When you say "VALUE", you are speaking of JUDGMENT, for another word for "judgment" is "eVALUation".
I believe what you describe there is auxiliary Ti, and another good evidence of her as a Thinker. (with internalized standards for the logical evaluation). Finding cheaper values is LOGICal! It's not Sensory.
Si would only provide an internal storehouse of knowledge of how to find good deals. It does not itself evaluate; it only takes in and filters the information.
While Se by itself would not care about maximum value, it is the auxiliary Ti that provides the rational assessment, and she is in her 40's, so it will be well developed and mature.

Hopping from store to store also sounds like Se. I've never really watched that show, so I don't know the details of what she's doing, but I've had explained to me that Se deals in "possibilities" as well. Possibilities of what's tangibly present, rather than conceptualizations of what could be. Does she set out saying "I wonder what each store charges, or which one is cheaper?", and then make the leap into the 'unknown'; or does she know what the stores charge, and simply pick out of them the most possible cheapest deals? That would be Se.

Raymond's mother is an ESTJ (Choleric Melancholy), and her sense of family would be what is more Si; not Fe. That's obviously at the bottom of her unconscious (#8 "Demonic Personality"), as she does not really merge with the personal values of the environment around her; she tries to force her own [semi-conscious] values (inferior Fi) through impersonal control (dom. Te; including ordering the environment such as cooking, etc).
Female STJ's often look a lot like Feelers.

You say they're both the same type, but they are very different from each other. They are both EST "In Charge" Interaction Style, but Rache has more of a people-focus and light-and-airiness because of the P, where Raymond's mother is a strictly task-focused TJ who only uses people for her goals.

ESTJs have the FEELING function as DEAD LAST. And its INTROVERTED. They are mostly emotionless, cold hearted, cruel. Most hours of the day. That is exactly how my ESTJ co-worker is. Marie Barone is full of FEELINGS inside of her. She can't help but be emotional, most of the time. So how can she be ESTJ? Still don't believe? Ok, another thing:

ESTJs are good at what? Commanding their troops at work, getting the job done. They are WORK FORCE orientated. They want to LEAD their troops, their forces, right? You know I'm right. Where does Marie Barone work at? Oh, that's right, she does NOT work. She is ONLY a homemaker (The Guardian/Traditionalist). She has spent her entire life serving her family, loving them at all times. Catering to their every need with her EXTROVERTED FEELING. She is constantly expressing feelings everytime she opens her mouth. Unlike, my ESTJ co-worker who is mean, cruel at most times.

The reason ESFJs come across as controlling, manipulitive is because like alot of ISFJ/ESFJs, she has the CRAZY/BI-POLAR thing going. She'll control you in a loving, caring, giving, catering way. A way that the ESTJ has NOT a single clue about it. If you'd like to see what I am talking about, watch this VIDEO:

Pay very CLOSE attention to this VIDEO, especially at 2:05mins into it. Listen to what happens to ISFJs & ESFJs:

http://youtu.be/46DE98XLeEo

My ESFJ co-workers are middle-aged too. And they have that CRAZY/BI-POLAR thing going on. They want to get into
everyone's business, they also want to be: THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. My ESFJ co-workers are BIG on this. They
want other people to do stuff for them by forcing things upon them by using LOVE-MANIPULATION. Most ISFJ & ESFJs
are good like this. This is what Marie Barone does ALL of the time. ESTJs do NOT use LOVE to manipulate you or others.
They just COMMAND YOU TO DO IT, without any emotion. Marie Barone is NOT, I repeat not ESTJ. She is a loving, caring,
manipulative ESFJ who is extremely bi-polar/crazy.

 

[Eric B]

There's really only ONE "Sensation" function, and BOTH attitudes deal in "details" in taste, smell, appearance, and any other sensory faculty.

Ti could have developed in you on time, but it was still immature, and while looking up to the things of Ti, I'll bet you were still easily intimidated by them (like if someone were to bombard you with a lot of impersonal technical details. I've noticed this with some INFJ's I've interacted with, including here). However, as you get older, it matures, and keeps maturing. So it wasn't mature enough to be into the coupons when you were younger, but in mid-life, then it developed that way. That's quite normal.

Shadows do not work the way you are suggesting. The goal in maturity is to become more aware of the suppressed functional perspectives, but Si is still not going to become something you "use" like that.
si is "Daimonic" for INFJ's. A perspective of stored concrete facts is not something you would normally pay attention to, because you have your introverted iNtuition to provide the internal template you use to filter information through. So it will come up when that complex is constallated, which is usually in dire stress, when the ego feels threatened with destruction. It then erupts in a very rash fashion. What happens in maturity, is you gain a little more control over it, and then it may become "transformative" (or an "angel"), because it is a whole new perspective you never considered before, to help in the situation (as you pretty much said). It's not about learning to "do" some new skill. You're making the common mistake of treating these functions like gears or skills, so you MUST "have" or "use" Si to care about coupons, so if you're INFJ, then what, you must be in "daimon" mode when shopping for deals. That makes no sense.

Also, BTW, "shadow" to Quenk (Was That Me?) is the inferior function; not the "other four". That's Beebe's model (also adopted by Berens and a few others).

Also, in conjunction with this, one function alone is not really the best to do everything by itself. So you're typing people by this rapid fire Ni process alone, but the other functions should not be neglected either (that's the whole purpose of type development), else, you have a very imbalanced perspective that is likely wrong.

An ESTJ, as preferring Si as their main perception function, will often follow traditional ways, and for a FEMALE, (and in an older American generation at that), that is to be a good mother and housekeeper, and also to be more in touch with the more humane side of life (nurturing the family, etc). that we might associate with "Feeling". So Marie fits this excellently.

Yet on the surface interaction level, she IS quite a "commanding" leader type. It's just that the cultural value system she follows does not allow her to do it in an organization outside the family.So she just does it WITHIN the family instead.
And she's somewhat elderly, so inferior Fi is going to be very visible; hence, yes, a lot of Feelings. But still, they are not merged with the outside environment (like other people and their WISHES) ; it comples completely from within her, and subtracts from the environment as she tries to impose them on everyone else. She doesn't appear really "caring" at all; it's just a traditional "feminine" persona, that IMO, is easy to see right through.
This again, is an immature function. It's different from dom. or aux. Fi. It's also "projective", so it does get projected onto everyone else; and that's precisely the "strong feeling" you're seeing engaging everyone.

No type is bound to any "bi-polar" disorder like that. The video starts off saying good stuff you should pay attention to, like around 1:00, but then the disorder thing is grossly stereotypical.

 

[toddha]

marie barone

>>

Um: You were saying about Marie Barone being something other than ESFJ? Take a look at this translated document:

http://translate.google.com/transla...a=X&ei=OgFOUI_dEoiE2QW1-oHwCQ&ved=0CDIQ7gEwAg

Please, stop using theory (thinking). Trust in your Intuition (Use the Force, see the patterns, connect the dots, grasp the big picture). I know you are
INTP and have the opposite Intuition of me. But trust in it. Give your thinking side a rest. Let your Extroverted side guide you. The Intuition and Feeling sides of you. I am INFJ, intuition & feeling is what I am all about.

 

[Cellmold]

I can SPEED READ a person in seconds. Not minutes like it would take most people because they have to use their THINKING function. I can do it in seconds thanks to my Ni.

You know I want to put this to the test, it's a bold claim.

Can you type me from my videos? http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56239

 

[Eric B]

>>

Um: You were saying about Marie Barone being something other than ESFJ? Take a look at this translated document:

http://translate.google.com/transla...a=X&ei=OgFOUI_dEoiE2QW1-oHwCQ&ved=0CDIQ7gEwAg

Please, stop using theory (thinking). Trust in your Intuition (Use the Force, see the patterns, connect the dots, grasp the big picture). I know you are
INTP and have the opposite Intuition of me. But trust in it. Give your thinking side a rest. Let your Extroverted side guide you. The Intuition and Feeling sides of you. I am INFJ, intuition & feeling is what I am all about.

>Not coincidentally, the ELR creators chose an ESFJ to be a mother.

The stereotypical "mother" is widely said to be ESFJ. That doesn't mean that's really the woman's type; it's just a role they are falling into, especially if they themselves are an SJ. (Which in itself, the article even says is a "nurturer" anyway. So it's not necessarily Fe you're looking at. Si can explain this stuff as well.

For one thing, this is Keirsey the article is using, and Keirsey doesn't use the functions. He keeps the dichotomies as standalone factors, and the real "base unit" is the temperament— SJ. The four types it contains are only "role variants", and are not as significant in his theory as they are in Jung or MBTI. So that whole ESFJ premise is based more in generalized stereotype (which Keirsey is often criticized for) than anything else.

And stop putting one function over others. We're ideally supposed to use them all, and one is not better than the other. I am using iNtuition. I considered your idea, but then also factored in other data and weighed it, but yes, Thinking had the final say, since it is the judgment function (And dominant at that), and the question requires a judgment.

Now look at this:
>Marie, to show who is boss and she considers the matter important to the family, does not accept the imprecise and calls for responsibility as the image of the family

That is pure "In Charge" (Interaction Style: EST; there's your "commander"), and strong Te (externalized impersonal judgment) backed by Fi (what SHE considers important for the family, rather than merging the subject with what THEY consider important).

In a heavy NTP and NTJ populated theory, there are a lot of negative images of ESFJ's; it gets projected onto any female seen as motherly or controlling, and I think that's what we're seeing here (especially when generalizations about major disorders get thrown in to support it).

 

[toddha]

Award goes to....

You know I want to put this to the test, it's a bold claim.

Can you type me from my videos? http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56239

And the award goes to...

Well, your indicator says ESFJ. But I think your Extroverted Intuition is quite a bit stronger. In fact, OVER THE TOP dominate.
A Ne of #3 (ESFJ) or #4 (ISFJ) seems to too low in the video. A Ne of #2 (INFP or INTP) is still too low. You seem to
be portraying a:

- ENFP or INFP (A lean towards ENFP-HSP type that has gone horribly wrong with possible bi-polar crazy in the mix)
- ENTP or INTP (A lean towards ENTP-HSP type that has gone horribly wrong with possible bi-polar crazy in the mix)
- ESFJ or ISFJ (but that craziness of YOU bouncing around all over god's green earth says: out of control
OVER THE TOP Extroverted Intuition) The Ne in regular ISFJ/ESFJs are WEAK in them. They are bouncy, but NOT
that bouncy. You are spilling your Extroverted Intuition all over god's green earth. ISFJ/ESFJ do not know how to
use their Ne effectively. You are literally BLEEDING your Ne all over the place. My niece is an ENTP, and I have seen
her DOMINATE Extroverted Intuition in action. Your's is stronger than her's, and for her its #1. You are HSP (Highly
Sensitive Person) or portray one. Its mostly the ENFJ, ENFP, ENTJ, ENTP type Extroverts that are HSP types. Mostly
the VERY STRONG Intuitive type Extroverts that show the HSP characteristics. You sir, seem HSP type. Which would
exclude you from any SENSOR type extrovert: ESFJ, ESFP, ESTJ or ESTP

Maybe the craziness could be the Ne coupled accidentally with Te, rather than Ti. Of course, this is theory. I don't
like to theorize about this subject. I like to use my J function on how I FEEL about something outside of me, coupled
with the 6th sense telling me what it obviously is. But good job with the award going to...

Btw, your face looks mostly identical to my ENTP niece. ENTPs are thin, by nature. Small body, usually quite petite.
You sir are very small framed (you appear very skinny, petite-like). ENTP's Si is VERY weak, #4. They are not known
for having big bodies. All of the ENTPs I know are female and ULTRA thin. You could be the first male ENTP I have
watch on Tv/internet, except for Doc Brown's character in the Back to the Future movies. As scatter-brained as I
thought my niece was and DOC BROWN from Back to the Future. You might Eclipse them by being over the top.

 

[toddha]

Sorry, I do know of another real-world ENTP. And you can see him in action. He is so bouncy. He is a true geek. He is one of my favorites. He reminds me so much of my ENTP niece. Its amazing. Actually amazing how similar they are in the real-world. This guy is as ENTP as I thought an ENTP could get. Til I saw Affirmitive Anxiety's video this morning:

Chris Pirillo (The Locker Gnome):

http://youtu.be/TXB2uTRehp4

Chris is kinda bordering on having Turrets Syndrome. And even acts little like Eric Cartman from South Park. Affirmitive Anxiety, you seem a loony version of this guy. This guy is ENTP all of the way. Its a fact. Not a THEORY. I just know. Blame it on my Ni+Fe as an INFJ.

 

[Cellmold]

And the award goes to...

Well, your indicator says ESFJ. But I think your Extroverted Intuition is quite a bit stronger. In fact, OVER THE TOP dominate.
A Ne of #3 (ESFJ) or #4 (ISFJ) seems to too low in the video. A Ne of #2 (INFP or INTP) is still too low. You seem to
be portraying a:

- ENFP or INFP (A lean towards ENFP-HSP type that has gone horribly wrong with possible bi-polar crazy in the mix)
- ENTP or INTP (A lean towards ENTP-HSP type that has gone horribly wrong with possible bi-polar crazy in the mix)
- ESFJ or ISFJ (but that craziness of YOU bouncing around all over god's green earth says: out of control
OVER THE TOP Extroverted Intuition) The Ne in regular ISFJ/ESFJs are WEAK in them. They are bouncy, but NOT
that bouncy. You are spilling your Extroverted Intuition all over god's green earth. ISFJ/ESFJ do not know how to
use their Ne effectively. You are literally BLEEDING your Ne all over the place. My niece is an ENTP, and I have seen
her DOMINATE Extroverted Intuition in action. Your's is stronger than her's, and for her its #1. You are HSP (Highly
Sensitive Person) or portray one. Its mostly the ENFJ, ENFP, ENTJ, ENTP type Extroverts that are HSP types. Mostly
the VERY STRONG Intuitive type Extroverts that show the HSP characteristics. You sir, seem HSP type. Which would
exclude you from any SENSOR type extrovert: ESFJ, ESFP, ESTJ or ESTP

Maybe the craziness could be the Ne coupled accidentally with Te, rather than Ti. Of course, this is theory. I don't
like to theorize about this subject. I like to use my J function on how I FEEL about something outside of me, coupled
with the 6th sense telling me what it obviously is. But good job with the award going to...

Btw, your face looks mostly identical to my ENTP niece. ENTPs are thin, by nature. Small body, usually quite petite.
You sir are very small framed (you appear very skinny, petite-like). ENTP's Si is VERY weak, #4. They are not known
for having big bodies. All of the ENTPs I know are female and ULTRA thin. You could be the first male ENTP I have
watch on Tv/internet, except for Doc Brown's character in the Back to the Future movies. As scatter-brained as I
thought my niece was and DOC BROWN from Back to the Future. You might Eclipse them by being over the top.

Thanks for the insight...hmm ENTP has come up a great deal.

It could be due to my enneagram and influences from tertiary Fe that, since im in a bit of an unhealthy state at the moment, im overcompensating on Fe over my Ti and I need to reign things in a bit with Ti rather than crutching on my tertiary.

But that's just an idea.

 

[toddha]

Thanks for the insight...hmm ENTP has come up a great deal.

It could be due to my enneagram and influences from tertiary Fe that, since im in a bit of an unhealthy state at the moment, im overcompensating on Fe over my Ti and I need to reign things in a bit with Ti rather than crutching on my tertiary.

But that's just an idea.

Need further proof? Mr Geek Man Chris Pirillo (ENTP) another video showing his:

- Off the CHART Extroverted Intuition
- His off the wall facial expressions & upper face movement. And his over the top hand gestures. (Extroverted Feeling)
- His lack of HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). He is NOT an HSP. He is LOUD and totally obnoxious.
- He suffers from Turrets Syndrome, at times.
- He has the Eric Cartman complex, at times.
- He is a true nerdy nerd.
- His body frame is THIN, rather ultra thin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDxZcNBRnpU&feature=share&list=ULUDxZcNBRnpU

Now, can you guess his female friend's type in the video?

- Obvious, in-your-face HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). She is so soft spoken. So gentle, so low volume level with her voice.
(This automatically eliminates her as a possible dominate SENSOR extroverted type: ESFJ, ESFJ, ESTJ & ESTP)
- This would make her an obvious strong dominate INTUITTIVE by default. She is thin, very petite. She is female.
- A short guess of ENTP with strong HSP would be a good guess. But there was one problem: Chris said she is
the SPORTY type. And look at her arms, ENTP females do not have muscles (typically). She is probably an
Extroverted Sensing type. Which eliminates her as: INTP-HSP, ENTP-HSP and might eliminate herself from
INFP-HSP & ENFP-HSP. So I lean towards INFJ-HSP or ENFJ-HSP. She seems Introverted. I had a problem
determining the E or I because she is one-on-one with him and has nobody else around her. I would like to
have seen her social interaction with other people to determine that effectively. So his female friend:

best guess - INFJ or ENFJ - strong HSP
maybe - INFP or ENFP - strong HSP

She has small female muscles on her arms and is SPORTY, thinking Extroverted Sensing because I do NOT
know any muscular female ENTP or INTP types. So INTP or ENTP strong HSP is not really possible. Although
her bone mass is quite thin and petite.


If you would like to see yet another ENTP in the real-world, take a look at Tim Ezell of FOX-2 news in St Louis, MO.
He is the taller ultra SKINNY, thin white guy in the middle. This guy is a loud, obnoxious, but highly intelligent ENTP.
No HSP in him at all. He is all about LOUD-LOUD-LOUD, turrets syndrome, Eric Cartman complex:

http://youtu.be/erKrTR_o1DI

He is SO ENTP all of the way. This is classic ENTP all the way...

 

[Cellmold]

Need further proof? Mr Geek Man Chris Pirillo (ENTP) another video showing his:

- Off the CHART Extroverted Intuition
- His off the wall facial expressions & upper face movement. And his over the top hand gestures. (Extroverted Feeling)
- His lack of HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). He is NOT an HSP. He is LOUD and totally obnoxious.
- He suffers from Turrets Syndrome, at times.
- He has the Eric Cartman complex, at times.
- He is a true nerdy nerd.
- His body frame is THIN, rather ultra thin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDxZcNBRnpU&feature=share&list=ULUDxZcNBRnpU

Now, can you guess his female friend's type in the video?

- Obvious, in-your-face HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). She is so soft spoken. So gentle, so low volume level with her voice.
(This automatically eliminates her as a possible dominate SENSOR extroverted type: ESFJ, ESFJ, ESTJ & ESTP)
- This would make her an obvious strong dominate INTUITTIVE by default. She is thin, very petite. She is female.
- A short guess of ENTP with strong HSP would be a good guess. But there was one problem: Chris said she is
the SPORTY type. And look at her arms, ENTP females do not have muscles (typically). She is probably an
Extroverted Sensing type. Which eliminates her as: INTP-HSP, ENTP-HSP and might eliminate herself from
INFP-HSP & ENFP-HSP. So I lean towards INFJ-HSP or ENFJ-HSP. She seems Introverted. I had a problem
determining the E or I because she is one-on-one with him and has nobody else around her. I would like to
have seen her social interaction with other people to determine that effectively. So his female friend:

best guess - INFJ or ENFJ - strong HSP
maybe - INFP or ENFP - strong HSP

She has small female muscles on her arms and is SPORTY, thinking Extroverted Sensing because I do NOT
know any muscular female ENTP or INTP types. So INTP or ENTP strong HSP is not really possible. Although
her bone mass is quite thin and petite.


If you would like to see yet another ENTP in the real-world, take a look at Tim Ezell of FOX-2 news in St Louis, MO.
He is the taller ultra SKINNY, thin white guy in the middle. This guy is a loud, obnoxious, but highly intelligent ENTP.
No HSP in him at all. He is all about LOUD-LOUD-LOUD, turrets syndrome, Eric Cartman complex:

http://youtu.be/erKrTR_o1DI

He is SO ENTP all of the way. This is classic ENTP all the way...

Thanks for this, your clarity is refreshing. By the way when I said ENTP I meant when asking about my type many people said ENTP, but then again there is probably an equally, (if not larger), quarter who would disagree.

My own assessments are...based on cognitive function theory although that isn't always the most reliable since it can become overly convoluted and contextual.

Still this seems...fairly accurate. I also must admit I both laughed and cried at your mention of bi-polar crazyness in the previous quote! Geddit?

But yeah I could see that. The part about being a HSP is actually a very interesting dynamic I hadn't considered before because lets be honest there is a lot more to being a HSP than just crying over nothing, people misunderstand the nature of 'sensitive' and because of this we also end up with archetypal nonsense that a thinking type cannot be warm or kind.

Ive heard so often of a T edge that apparantly I do not possess.

 

[toddha]

Now I should make mention of one thing. My closest friend in the world is a co-worker of mine. She is an Introverted dominate SENSOR type. She is an ISFP. I trust her like I trust no one else, beyond my family. My ISFP co-worker is a HSP type. She is VERY sensitive to her surroundings. In fact, her sensitivity to her surroundings astonishes me. She is so SOFT spoken, voice is so light, gentle to listen to. I am an INFJ-HSP type. So I recognize the HSP trait in her so well. So it is possible for dominate SENSOR Introverts to possess the characteristic of HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). Its RARE. But it does happen. Dominate SENSOR types that are Extroverted do NOT possess the HSP traits. I have never encountered a single one in my lifetime. If they exist, they are the RAREST of the RAREST type. And the info out on the internet seems to confirm what I already know about the real world. HSP type Extroverts are indeed rare at 30% or less. And only exist in the strong INTUITIVE dominate extrovert types: ENFJ, ENFP, ENTJ, ENTP. So AffirmativeAnxiety, you are an HSP type. I can see it clearly in you. So that eliminates you as a possible ESFJ or any ESxx type at all. if you are Extroverted with strong dominate Extroverted Intuition (as you appear), my guess is you are an HSP-Type ENTP. Its possible you could be HSP-ENFP. But then that would eliminate the Extroverted Feeling that I feel coming from you. I admit, you are not quite as expressive as Tim Ezell of FOX-2 news in St Louis or Chris Pirillo of Locker Gnome. But then again, neither of those other 2 ENTPs are HSP (Highly Sensitive Person) types. You obviously are. And your HSP is very obvious and clearly visible.

 

[toddha]

That gal with chris Pirillo. She could be ENTP-HSP. I looked at the video again, and saw a slight lean towards extroversion.
I still can't make up my mind about it. ENTP-HSP, ENFJ-HSP or ENFP-HSP. I lean towards Extroverted Feeling with Extroverted
Sensing for her. Which would be more ENFJ-HSP or INFJ-HSP. Here are some videos to show you what a STRONG, OVER THE
TOP HSP (Highly Sensitive Person) sounds like. They are a mix of different strong INTUITIVE types. Yeah, its not about crying.
Its about being very sensitive to your environment, your surroundings. The wiring between your brain and your 6-senses. Notice
I said 6-senses, rather than just 5-senses. I am an INFJ and I very strong HSP Type. I am super sensitive when people pop
balloons near me. I jump thru the roof everytime. I startle very easily

So, here are a few HSP (Highly Sensitive Person) videos to see what it looks and sounds like:


HSP INFP:
http://youtu.be/O_QVzdlzXuU

HSP INFJ or INFP (She is not sure of her type. She may not know she is HSP):
http://youtu.be/PQeJ6KWP5HE

HSP INFJ male:
http://youtu.be/VZPtLNkCCxI

HSP INFJ (background):
http://youtu.be/fAn19tRDEd8

HSP INFJ (possibly INFP):
http://youtu.be/gotLpDF7_JE

HSP INFJ male (Knows alot about INFJ types):
http://youtu.be/U--vIhJU2xg

HSP INFJ female (also knows alot about INFJ types):
http://youtu.be/m1baq9pkiUk

HSP INFJ female:
http://youtu.be/49ctFepp8yg

 

[The Great One]

Gordon Ramsey- ENTJ 8w7 Sp/?
Graham Elliot-ISxP (have no idea what his enneatype is)
Joe Bistanich- INTP (Probably some type of 3-5-8 tri-type)