Barack & Michelle Obama's Type

[nanook]

are only capable of/concerned with "superficial insights"

you are again laying putting into my mouth.
i have never said anything like that and you know it and everyone can read about it.

also i would rather like to see you, becoming aware of your boundaries on your own, instead of relying on other peoples explanation.

and just a reminder: you guys made this go off topic, because i was saying something about why introverted people would value transparency, without even indicating that only they would value that ... i was not out there to teach people something about extroverted people.

 

[simulatedworld]

extroverted people feel that superficial insight is all that is of real value, therefore they don't feel blind.

extroverted people feel that superficial insight is all that is of real value, therefore they don't feel blind.

extroverted people feel that superficial insight is all that is of real value, therefore they don't feel blind.

extroverted people feel that superficial insight is all that is of real value, therefore they don't feel blind.

extroverted people feel that superficial insight is all that is of real value, therefore they don't feel blind.

Seriously?

also i would rather like to see you, becoming aware of your boundaries on your own, instead of relying on other peoples explanation.

and just a reminder: you guys made this go off topic, because i was saying something about why introverted people would value transparency, without even indicating that only they would value that ... i was not out there to teach people something about extroverted people.

So let me get this straight: you've made a specious claim about extroverts, refused to defend it and then told us that we should go figure it out ourselves. Got it.

If you weren't out to imply that extroverts are concerned only with superficial insights, perhaps you shouldn't have directly stated that extroverts value only superficial insights, hm?

 

[nanook]

you take it out of context, deliberately. i am talking about interaction, of course. if you would not be malevolent you could see that right away. it is obvious.

it is you who assumes that i am stupid and whatnot, rather than assuming that i am right, and interpreting my statements in such a way, that they make sense. this is the same malevolence that you make other people in this forum suffer all the time ..

example:

For just a moment I'm going to treat you like a rational, thinking adult and I'd appreciate it if you'd make an effort to respond like one.

it is not anyones job to make statements in causal discussions that are so anally precise, so that stupid or malevolent people could not possibly get them wrong, if they try hard to do so...

 

[simulatedworld]

^ ORLY? Okay, here's the whole post:

wont make a statement about type, but list what properties of him caught my eye:

i had him read his book to me, and watched him on youtube and watches his initiation speak. maybe i dont know enough.

he has this slow learner, observer, slow decision maker live style (much like malcom x). builds up his values or insight (N or T) more, than he acts them out (unlike E). is minimalistic about acting out anything. tries to live the impersonal life without properties (very T, totally unlike enfj), other than carefully applied actions. he is involved with people because he is cool about formal interaction (T), but he is involved without assuming control (unlike EJ), he listens, takes advice but does not become attached (not like Fe). building up values or insight by observation, not by trial and error (unlike Te or Ne). he applies them, when they are finished, in a stage process (very I). then he won't change them anymore (somehow J). he is not very situational, he wants to be(come) his own example of truth (Ti) Or channel his vision (Ni). his ability to survive and rise in politics would indicate Ne rather than Ni, especially if he is not Te dominant. but if he were entp, he is hiding this, and emphasises his director image (IxxJ). for good reasons. nobody would trust an entp president.if he is Ti, than he has strong Ne, which is to be expected from a person who is developed, which brings me to another point:

his motivational talk is mostly coming from a stage of development. it's not an indication of enfj. it's not an indication of his type. but there is N in the wordings. not in his message. this man is not a slave of his functions. he does not hear voices like ("make this plannet into an ENFJs dream"). if you reduce his message to something like that, then you did not get it.

i think his N is more apparent in how independent (almost isolated) he is in his live style (values and thinking).

i believe that transparency (that youtube thing) is a value in introverted people, because they don't like to feel excluded, but the superficiality of the world is usually making them feel excluded (blind and insecure), even when they are integrated and behaving in an extroverted way. extroverted people feel that superficial insight is all that is of real value, therefore they don't feel blind. however the youtube transparency is also a stage move.

Ok, there it is in full. I see that you discussed several different topics here, but I don't see how the full context changes the perceived meaning of your statement regarding extroverts.

Now that the quote is here in full context, would you be so kind as to explain how this changes anything?

 

[nanook]

Now that the quote is here in full context, would you be so kind as to explain how this changes anything?

no reason to be kind in the presence of your malevolence.

my pattern speaks for itself. extroverted people could not function in an extroverted way, if they would stumble into rifts all the time, it is their speed (other word for superficiality) that makes them slide right over what is cooking in the depth ... if they would not function in an superficial way, they would (could) no longer be extroverted. some of them like to call some variations of this sliding 'strength'. getting over it. jumping jack. all such value labels refer to skills in an extroverted-egocentric light, which is totally okay. these values should be transcended and included.

 

[Blackmail!]

no reason to be kind in the presence of your malevolence.

Who is "malevolent", tell me?

I've tried to be kind and comprehensive, because you obviously seem very fragile and hurt. I've tried to explain what you missed, despite your constant insults and deep hatred of what we extroverts are, and especially ENTPs (or people you interpret as ENTPs).

I did not manipulated you. I made no statements about introversion, only about what I obviously know better than you, extroversion.

I've tried to help you, to show you some points that could refine your perception of Extroversion and ENTPs.

You did not listen, you just kept insulting us, again, and again, and again.

---

So for the first time, let's speak bluntly. Either you have a deep neurosis, something that is beyond our reach here because we are not the right persons for you, either you're just a troll that enjoys lame provocations.

Either ways, I'm wondering what is your real purpose here. Only you can really answer that.

 

[nanook]

>>despite your constant insults and deep hatred of what we extroverts are,

HAHAH he goes on and goes on with the misrepresentation ..

i am not the hater of anyone who acts right according to his possibilities, be he extroverted or anything. and i see things as they are. i am extra careful about this, and check myself by all means, so i know.
but i sure wont take anything away from healthy anger about concrete unjust behavior in this world, who ever is responsible for it. because this is actually compassion, and it is the great clarity that i am feeling right now.

 

[Blackmail!]

>>despite your constant insults and deep hatred of what we extroverts are,

HAHAH he goes on and goes on with the misrepresentation ..

As a matter of fact, you have crossed MY boundaries.

And obviously, I'm not the only one to feel that way in your presence.

 

[Blackmail!]

i am not the hater of anyone who acts right according to his possibilities, be he extroverted or anything. and i see things as they are. i am extra careful about this, and check myself by all means, so i know.
but i sure wont take anything away from healthy anger about concrete unjust behavior in this world, who ever is responsible for it. because this is actually compassion, and it is the great clarity that i am feeling right now.

I fear you did not understand the purpose of Typology-central.

We are here to learn about others, how they behave, how they feel, how they think, despite their countless differences. We are here to listen, to interpret, to analyze.

But what you're doing is only saying "I am right; I see everything as they are; I know".
You're not here to learn anything.
You're not here to listen to anybody.
You're not here to understand people who are different than you, but to make final judgements about them.

---

And furthermore, what's really creepy is the nature of your generalizations. Obviously, someone you typed as an ENTP has hurt you in the past. So believe me, the way you project your anger against anybody that vaguely remind you of your tormentor is incredibly violent. But above all, these negative generalizations are silly, because they prevent you to see how diverse and complex types are, even amongst ENTPs.

You could have found some friends or understanding ears here, but you adamantly refuse them.

According to me, you use typology in the worst possible, unhealthy way.

 

[nanook]

funny, how that record keeps playing ...

 

[Lauren Ashley]

The only thing I'm sure about is that he is iNtuitive. I've read Dreams from My Father and The Audacity of Hope. I suggest anyone wishing to type him use those as a guide rather than his public persona. He's too malleable to judge by the way he is in the public; he can appear to be any type.

 

[King sns]

The only thing I'm sure about is that he is iNtuitive. I've read Dreams from My Father and The Audacity of Hope. I suggest anyone wishing to type him use those as a guide rather than his public persona. He's too malleable to judge by the way he is in the public; he can appear to be any type.

Yes- true, based on that book, definitely N.

I got a strong ENFJ vibe from reading it.

 

[King sns]

I no longer am SURE President Obama is ISFP (I admit that sounded far fetched, though I feel I had my good reasons).

But I really feel I need to address claims that he is an "N".

Did anyone watch the 100 days press conference?

When he was asked what has "enchanted" him about his new job, he joked about it and you could see in his face that he didn't feel comfortable with the term. It was way too "N" for him.

Besides that, consider his specificity and attention to detail and propensity for getting things done, and his statement that if anyone can serve, they should, and that's why he is doing it. Also, look at his down-to-earth gait and stance.

He is such an obvious "S"!

Anyone have any thoughts about why he wouldn't be an "S"?

Well if we are talking about his public persona, I don't know if the word enchanted scaring him makes him an "S". He's certainly not afraid of the words "change" or "hope" .

The Audacity of Hope has some anecdotal stories to bring his discussion of politics down to a more friendly and approachable level, but mostly its very N. He's definitely a dreamer- he's got his doers around him to help him follow through with his plans.

(Oh and P.S.- didn't have any time to read the whole thread- just the OP and Lauren Ashley's post. Sorry if this post was a repeat of something from before)

 

[Lethal Sage]

ENTP for sure.

 

[Edgar]

lol Obama is hilariously NF; look at the his moral crusades for broad-sweeping societal change, his dramatic idealism, charismatic orator persona and obvious penchant for dreaming up fantastical new visions for leading humanity into futuristic utopia!

I first had him pegged as ENFJ from watching the debates and public appearances during the campaign, but after seeing enough personal interviews on talk shows and such where he's unscripted, he seems very ENFP. He's hilariously Ne dom when he's just socializing and being himself; try the recent Jay Leno interview where he made that overblown comment about the special olympics...that seems suspiciously like Ne running its mouth off to be entertaining...my best guess, anyway.

ISTJ wtf?

That special olympics goof isn't enough to sway me to believe he is ENFP (instead of ENFJ)

Some of my ENFJs friends would make fucked up jokes (i.e. retard jokes, racist jokes, etc) when they are feeling comfortable with their surroundings. And he seems very comfortable around Leno.

 

[Queen Kat]

He seems pretty NF to me. I'm not quite sure if I'd call him a J or a P. Probably Extraverted. I'd go for ENFJ, but I just saw a website lately that mentionned that he would be a ENFP. Very confusing.:steam:

 

[mippus]

Gosh, such a surprising new thread...

 

[527468]

Gosh, such a surprising new thread...

Had to take a poll on it. I'm just quite democratic is all.

 

[Tiny Army]

My roomates and I recently did a comparison between Obama and Bill Clinton's inaugural adresses and came to the conclusion that Obama is an ENFP and Clinton is an ENTP.

Clinton expressed a rational message through passionate and charismatic means, using his Ti-Fe axis.

Obama was expressing an emotional message in rational and systematic terms, his Fi-Te axis.

Both use their tertiary judging function to buttress their position. Clinton relied on community feelings to carry out a basically rational goal; a goal based on Ti and Ne - what we have done and what we can do. Obama's is more action oriented. He has a directive Te based plan set around Ne-Fi ideals; a vision for the future and the desire to feel proud to be American.

It was really interesting to break down their functions during the course of the speeches.

 

[mippus]

To what extent is it really his speech? As an INTP, if I were a top politician, I'd certainly ask an F to write along with me, or at least to "tune" my speech...