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  1. #21
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    I'm off to bed, but athenian200, just a quick question: How much of your typing is theoretical? Do you know any ISFP and especially ISTP women IRL for comparison?

  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Hmm... My guess would be either ISTP, as you suggested, or ISFP. Her pragmatism, lack of grandioisity, and present-orientation all suggest SP temperment. However, I think I sensed more Fi than Fe, especially as she spoke of the other people she was associated with. Also, acting doesn't sound like a goal befitting an ISTP, but possibly an ISFP. What do you think?
    Comparing her to the ISFPs (both male and females) I know in real life, she was far too abrasive in her word choices and "devil may care" attitude for an ISFP. Most would have considered her language and flippant comments to be insensitive, at best.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Comparing her to the ISFPs (both male and females) I know in real life, she was far too abrasive in her word choices and "devil may care" attitude for an ISFP. Most would have considered her language and flippant comments to be insensitive, at best.
    Most test procedures that check T/F are more geared towards detecting Fe than Fi. So an ISFP might test an ISTP. One test wouldn't validate the preference, their actual interactions and word choices have to be observed more carefully. And the ISTP's I know are much less expressive than the ISFP's, and use more descriptions associated with systems, objects, and processes. An Fi would be vulgar if it described her internal state, because they are focused more focused on intensity of their own reaction than on other people's values.

  4. #24
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Most test procedures that check T/F are more geared towards detecting Fe than Fi. So an ISFP might test an ISTP. One test wouldn't validate the preference, their actual interactions and word choices have to be observed more carefully. And the ISTP's I know are much less expressive than the ISFP's, and use more descriptions associated with systems, objects, and processes. An Fi would be vulgar if it described her internal state, because they are focused more focused on intensity of their own reaction than on other people's values.
    Well, the interview wasn't a feeling reaction of any sort, SJ was being impartial and indifferent... and that was simply how she chose to speak.

    The ISFPs I know (and in fact I was just talking to one outside before I posted this, my neighbor) might have an anger-reaction and swear ... or if they are around people in a private group (like a male ISFP working in a garage with a few other men), they might use vulgar language... but their gentleness and sensitivity usually prevents them from adopting it as the general rule of thumb in casual conversation with strangers -- which this very public interview with SJ was.

    There are many similarities between INFP and ISFP, in terms of their typical gentleness (fueled by Fi). Usually they keep their Fi feelings under wraps and only externalize the Se or Ne part -- exploring abstractions or else exploring sensory impressions, guided by a developed Fi. Introverted feeling seems to add another layer of sensitivity to how people deal with others, something that Ni or Si or Ti does not seem to offer as much of.

    Really, I do not see SJ's flippant impersonalness as typical of Fi. There is a flatness to her comments and emotionality that does not seem typical of Fi but is very typical of Ti.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #25
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Really, I do not see SJ's flippant impersonalness as typical of Fi. There is a flatness to her comments and emotionality that does not seem typical of Fi but is very typical of Ti.
    It was only impersonal from an Fe perspective. Fi doesn't consider others, it considers inner intensity, right?

    Also, I didn't really see flatness, but I saw facial expressions and heard some appropriate tonal variance that matched the emotions she was expressing.

    Personally, I don't think either one of us would be the best judges, since you're Ti and can't detect emotion easily, and I'm Fe, and tend to see things in terms of emotion even when they aren't.

    I think Economica's Te would be best for bringing in another perspective. Since ISTP was her original guess, that's probably a better choice based on the way types are assigned to people, at least via current testing methods.

    Still, what do the rest of you think?

  6. #26
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Babbling and having a high comfort level with an audience are not surefire indicators of Extroversion. Nor is occasionally being loud.
    They don't prove but do support the hypothesis. And being loud and obnoxious at work isn't a typical ISTP trait as far as I know (with friends, maybe).
    Like I wrote, SJ's demeanor is lethargic (i.e. she exhibits a relatively low level of interactive energy/animation), and like Jennifer wrote, she seems self-contained.
    She doesn't seem (from the interviews) any more lethargic than the Es I know..in fact she seemed rather animated in the long one. Not sure what gives the impression of self-contained. Does seem rather impersonally flirtatious, so I can see the T there. Actually she kinda reminds me of an ENTP I know as well.
    Also, to the extent that one believes that actors play variations of themselves, the roles I've seen her in (Ghost World, Lost in Translation, Match Point) have been I characters.
    Unprovable; irrelevant.

    You all seem to agree that she's I though, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm too far on the I side so it's skewing my perception.

  7. #27
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    You all seem to agree that she's I though, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm too far on the I side so it's skewing my perception.
    No, I agree. ESTP would be my guess. She took to the stage and the attention at too young of an age, and she was willing to throw down a scene at the drop of a hat. She shows herself off in just about every way, doing just about everything one can possibly imagine. I don't see much I in her at all. I'd have to see some pretty overwhelming personal indications of being an I to escape her bio.

  8. #28
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Let's tally this up now, shall we?

    athenian200: ISFP
    Economica, Jennifer: ISTP
    ptgatsby, Randomnity: ESTP
    Uberfuhrer: xSFP

    So we all concur that she's has an SP temperment. Two of us think she's SFP, but the other four think she's STP, so we'll go with that. Of the remaining votes, it's evenly split between ISTP and ESTP. We need more opinions to be certain, but if I'm to choose between ISTP and ESTP, I'd go with ESTP, due to her expressiveness. If we get more opinions that she's SFP, then I'll go with ISFP over ESFP. I doubt anyone will contest the SP temperament?

  9. #29
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    No, I agree. ESTP would be my guess.
    (Whaddayaknow! )

    She took to the stage and the attention at too young of an age, and she was willing to throw down a scene at the drop of a hat. She shows herself off in just about every way, doing just about everything one can possibly imagine. I don't see much I in her at all. I'd have to see some pretty overwhelming personal indications of being an I to escape her bio.
    I'm not sure what you mean by the first sentence. She was a child actor like other Is have been. What exactly is it in her bio that belies Introversion?

    I'm not sure what you mean by the second sentence either. That she dresses provocatively?

    Like I wrote in the OP, she reminds me of the ISTP women I know, especially a particularly sultry one. Jennifer also sees the similarity between her and an ISTP she knows IRL. pt, do you know ISTP and ESTP women IRL for comparison and does she really strike you as resembling the latter the most?

    Nervously hosting the awards for Scientific/Technical achievements !! (2 minutes)

  10. #30
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Like I wrote in the OP, she reminds me of the ISTP women I know, especially a particularly sultry one. Jennifer also sees the similarity between her and an ISTP she knows IRL. pt, do you know ISTP and ESTP women IRL for comparison and does she really strike you as resembling the latter the most?
    She compares to the ISTP woman I know personally. She is far less like the 2 or 3 ESTP women I know personally. (Although there are similarities.)

    Gotta go, have a good day!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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