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Thread: Doctor Who

  1. #21
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aderack View Post
    These are mostly right, I think. I'd go with ISTP for Ian; he's Ti embodied.
    I'm currently re-watching my dvd of "The Dalek Invasion of Earth", and I've decided I agree with you here. In his latest book, "Brains And Careers", David Keirsey calls the ISTP the "Tactical Contender." And that's exactly what Ian does throughout his time as a Tardis passenger - tactically contend with whatever is thrown at him, using whatever tools are at his disposal, both mental and physical tools, to achieve his ends - which are usually just the continued survival of his companions and himself.

    Pretty soon I'll re-watch some of the Steven episodes and see if I concur with your assessment that he's more SP than SJ. It's certainly possible - personality types were not even close to on my mind as I watching those episodes through the first time a few years ago.
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  2. #22
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Having dwelled some more, I think you're right about Steven; there's more Si going on than Se. It depends on the story, and his character comes out more in the performance than in the writing, but all the way through The Time Meddler, he has trouble with the Doctor's and Vicki's esoteric explanations for what he sees. He fishes into his memory banks, then applies extraverted thinking to explain things away as practically as he can.

    So. SiTe or TeSi. That's ISTJ or ESTJ. I want to say that, on reflection, he's quite a bit more introverted than I realized. His toy panda, Hi-Fi, seems to point to this. (And this sounds right.)

    I was paying too much attention to the freewheeling rocket jockey element, which now strikes me as more incidental after The Chase. I also think I was confusing Te for Se and Si for Ti. That is to say, his introversion -- as I'm now leaning -- came off like perception, and his judgment came off like extraversion.

    I believe The Massacre was the first story actually written for Steven as such, rather than for a generic male companion. (He was only written into the show a week or two before his first appearance.) So that's probably a good place to start watching. In that scene at the end, I think that's a loyal follower who isn't used to taking control or challenging his leader, and yet he has had enough. I think that's where his dissonance comes from. That would also explain why he so quickly returns, despite his frustration.

    [YOUTUBE="aSaJ0Dcu8Xo"].[/YOUTUBE]

  3. #23
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I figured ESFJ for Donna and ESFP for Rose.

    And Martha? Call me crazy, but maybe ISFP?

  4. #24
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Don't you think the conflict between Sylvia and Donna is essentially a J/P thing (SJ/SP thing, at that), with Sylvia constantly nagging Donna about her lack of ambition in life? Until the Doctor comes along and fires some unused neurons, all Donna cares about is the new flavor of Pringle.

    And wouldn't you say that series two Rose in particular is basically an Fi monster? In particular, look at the Cyberman two-parter and her behavior there. For everything that's going on around her, all that's screwed up, what matters to her is her own personal stuff.

    [youtube="GmAy3STH-K8"].[/youtube]

    Her character is kind of distorted there, but this has been her modus operandi since we met her. Another big arrow is Father's Day. Even when she gets down with the proletariat, she's more condescending than anything -- projecting her own values on others, and thinking that helps -- as Gwyneth points out in Unquiet Dead.

    She gets tweaked for that again in The Impossible Planet.

    [YOUTUBE="VEcfXBF15fY"].[/YOUTUBE]

    As for S versus F, that's a bit more ambiguous. Notice, though, how her journey seems entirely based on finding meaning in life. Granted, she tends to try to find it through older men. Notice also how Rose is contrasted with Jackie, in the ideals she holds, that Jackie sniffs at. Without those ideals she wouldn't be able to lecture every downcast creature she finds (from Dalek to, well, Mickey) about how to improve its lot.

    Mind, if she is an INFP, she's a terribly immature one.

  5. #25
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I'm not being at all scientific about the typing - just sitting here watching the shows wondering what an ENTP's doing being mates with these people.

    Donna particularly reminds me a whole lot of a girl I know and have decided to type ESFJ, including all that exaggerated "Noo!" stuff, the sudden robust caring for people, and of course, the sheer volume... On this scheme the Donna vs Sylvia thing is SJ vs miserable old SJ.

    And Rose doesn't seem very N. Not much Ne vs Ne with the Doctor, but a lot of Se lets go. Plus she smiles like an ENFP I know.

    And I have no idea about Martha except that she seems E but not very, and could conceivably be INFJ but not really...

    So... that's all I got. Probably includes a fair bit of mixing up actor with part played.



    Edit to address the actual points:

    Donna and ambition: I got the impression that Donna was very ambitious, just not successful. Consider the first time we meet her, on the verge of a marriage she thinks she created.

    Sylvia: a miserable old woman accustomed to finding fault. Dare I say a frustrated TJ? ISTJ? Except she has a lot of energy for undermining Donna, so E?

    Rose: we're agreeing FP? Cool. She was looking for meaning? In season 1 I guess. So far I've looked only at the David Tennant Doctor. But she was an Fi monster in Season 2? Matter of perspective, I guess. What I kept on noticing was the way serious exchanges between the Doctor and Rose would turn into some kind of joke exchange because one or the other of them would make a face and it would lead to some kind of "Let's go!" activity. Often, as I recall, in the face of danger. So I said Se. But I don't suppose one should rule out Ne.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    To bring back an old thread (I hope that's ok 'round these parts, but I was thinking about it and didn't want to start a new one):

    I agree on ESFJ for Donna. That's not particularly well thought out, but she seems too high-strung to be a P.

    It's a while since I've seen a Rose season. Some kind of xSFP seems right, though she doesn't seem to be solidly E or I.

    I have no idea on Martha. IxxJ, but beyond that, not sure.

  7. #27
    Senior Member hokie912's Avatar
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    I've only seen the new series, but these are my impressions:

    The Doctor: ENTP
    Rose Tyler: ISFP
    Martha Jones: ISFJ
    Donna Noble: ESFJ

    I like Rose as ISFP rather than ESFP. Fi-dominant sounds right, and I don't find in her life in London that she seems all that extraverted. She definitely comes across as extraverted when engaging others she meets while traveling with the Doctor, but I think with him she's on this constant experience-high. I was really tempted to type her as INFP, but I think she more closely resembles ISFPs I've known.

    Donna is definitely ESFJ -- one who over the course of her travels learns to use her Fe to really connect with people rather than enforcing/conforming to social expectations. Her capacity for empathy is just amazing. And she definitely uses Si rather than Se: look at how she solves all those mysteries with knowledge gained working as a temp in an office.

    And, just because: Sally Sparrow: INFJ.
    Kathy Nightingale: What did you come here for anyway?
    Sally Sparrow: I love old things. They make me feel sad.
    Kathy Nightingale: What's good about sad?
    Sally Sparrow: It's happy for deep people.

  8. #28
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I think I'm alone in seeing Donna Noble as an ExTP, but I do. She's got an amazingly sharp Ti, but it often comes 2nd place to whatever else is going on around her. But she follows the Doctor's train of thought better than any other companion in the new series. She is extremely analytical underneath her brash exterior.

    Her depression at not having amounted to anything in life could have been the reason for her party-girl behavior... living in her shadow or inferior functions or whatever.

    She wanted to remain a temp, she is always bragging about her skills (which I find to be an EP trait) and she lives on hope rather than reality - which is a very P trait. Always holding out for something better.

    But once she found her true calling, she excelled in it. She rarely made bumbling selfish, stupid moves like Rose (who was warned over and over again not to save her father, not to touch her baby self, etc...). And she didn't live in a dream world surrounded by dreams of saving people and falling in love like Martha did. Donna ended her engagement with no fanfare or remorse or sadness for being duped. She refused traveling with the Doctor because he killed so many and she didn't want to be committed to all that mess. It's not so unrealistic for an ExTP woman to exhibit Fe at that stage in her life. But she did stay on Earth and made it her mission to be a supernatural detective of sorts while looking for the Doctor.

    Anyway, that being said, Donna is my favorite companion of this new series.

  9. #29
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Yeah, you've been convincing me of that. It's easy to type Donna as we first see her, rather than later on after she blossoms and finds herself.

  10. #30
    Senior Member hokie912's Avatar
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    I'm trying to see EXTP for Donna, but I still don't. In Runaway Bride, she's basically the portrait of an unhealthy ESFJ, and I think she grows into herself over the course of the series and is ultimately a very balanced ESFJ. I'm still bitter about her ending.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I think I'm alone in seeing Donna Noble as an ExTP, but I do. She's got an amazingly sharp Ti, but it often comes 2nd place to whatever else is going on around her. But she follows the Doctor's train of thought better than any other companion in the new series. She is extremely analytical underneath her brash exterior.
    I agree that Donna's quite sharp, but she is so in a different way than the Doctor is. She recognizes things based on how they fit into he past experiences (Si) and figures them out from there. The Doctor has a habit of missing the trees for the forest, and Donna sees the trees. I think Donna's a great companion because her strengths and the Doctor's compliment one another nicely. She's strong enough and independent enough that they can interact as equals, whereas the power balance is way askew with Rose and Martha.

    Interesting to note that if she is ESFJ, she has the same four functions as the Doctor in a different order.

    She wanted to remain a temp, she is always bragging about her skills (which I find to be an EP trait) and she lives on hope rather than reality - which is a very P trait. Always holding out for something better.
    I see this as insecurity on her part, though. She hadn't figured out something that she wanted to do that was also socially acceptable for someone her age. She's initially brash and abrasive, but obviously overcompensating. And she wanted--or thought she wanted--extremely conventional things: job, attractive husband, family. I don't see it as being an exclusively EP trait to brag about areas of competency, or live on hope (although in the pre-Doctor stage of her life, I'd probably argue that she wasn't that hopeful and was definitely getting to the point of "settling").

    Donna ended her engagement with no fanfare or remorse or sadness for being duped. She refused traveling with the Doctor because he killed so many and she didn't want to be committed to all that mess. It's not so unrealistic for an ExTP woman to exhibit Fe at that stage in her life. But she did stay on Earth and made it her mission to be a supernatural detective of sorts while looking for the Doctor.
    About the engagement: sort of. She certainly wasn't happy about it, and would have been downright miserable if she hasn't gotten a great big dose of perspective right after it happened. This is one of my very favorite exchanges of dialogue in the entire series:
    Doctor: We've gone back 4.6 billion years. Only dust and gas and rocks. That's the sun, over there, brand new. The Earth is all around us in the dust.
    Donna: Puts the wedding in perspective. Lance was right. We're just... tiny...
    Doctor: No, but that's what you do! The human race. Make sense out of chaos. Marking it out with...weddings, and Christmas, and calendars. This whole process is beautiful -- but only if it's being observed.
    Donna: So I came out of all this.
    Doctor. Isn't that brilliant?


    Donna's not going with the Doctor at the end of Runaway Bride is so Fe-Si: he scares her, he's unconventional, that's just not what people do. And what I love about that scene is how she really sees him: "I think you need someone to stop you." She's so astute with feelings and so empathetic under all that initial defensiveness that I really can't but see Fe as one of her first functions. She realizes she's made a huge mistake, though, and changes her lifestyle because now she has a purpose.

    So yeah, I'm still seeing ESFJ. Granted, if so, she's probably the coolest ESFJ fictional character I can even think of.

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