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  1. #291
    Riva
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    True. The fact he loves her and wants to keep her out of harm's way alone doesn't prove Fe. It's the fact he wants to save everyone else as well that does, a higher Fi user in that situation would likely think of himself and those close to him, exclusively.
    It's highly unlikely that anyone, regardless of what type he/she is would prevent himself from saving and protecting life, regardless of whether he loves them or only knows them.

    And I am sure ISFPs would be just as much as heroic as ESTPs would if they have to. Wouldn't look so macho though .

  2. #292
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    It's highly unlikely that anyone, regardless of what type he/she is would prevent himself from saving and protecting life, regardless of whether he loves them or only knows them.
    Harry wants to save everyone in the world (not just people he knows), at great risk to himself. An Fi user would alternately decline to save the world (self-preservation instinct), or go on a deeper ideological crusade (internal values at work). Lower Fi users in particular can be extremely egotistical. Harry's motivations on the other hand run no deeper than a heart of gold and an impulse to be heroic, which denotes Fe (empathy for others).

    And I am sure ISFPs would be just as much as heroic as ESTPs would if they have to.
    Operative: If they have to.
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  3. #293
    Riva
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    Harry wants to save everyone in the world (not just people he knows), at great risk to himself.
    On an exaggerated level, ISFP are the type of people who'll hold their own feces just so that everyone in line can make it to the bathroom before it's too late . ESTPs are not.

    Alek,
    ISFPs are quite idealistic. Everyone has to be treated the same way, is what ISFPs would belive in. An ESTP wouldn't care too much on the global level. Yes they would help people when others are treated unfairly (ESTPs hate injustice), but highly unlikely they would have an idealistic set of beliefs.


    An Fi user would alternately decline to save the world (self-preservation instinct), or go on a deeper ideological crusade (internal values at work).
    What on earth made you say this?

    And would not go on a idealistic crusade. I think that applies to ESTPs more than ISFPs. Fi is much more idealistic than Fe.

    Harry's motivations on the other hand run no deeper than a heart of gold and an impulse to be heroic, which denotes Fe (empathy for others).
    Yes you are correct, it doe imply Fe. But Harry does not want to be a hero (you should read the book). He wants to be just another kid. An ESTP in his shoes (fame, love, attention) would have nailed at least 100 girl (give or take). He would have atleast formed his own rock group.

    But harry didn't. He wanted to be left alone (always). Be a watcher. But he had to be the Hero. it was his destiny not his desire.

  4. #294
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    On an exaggerated level, ISFP are the type of people who'll hold their own feces just so that everyone in line can make it to the bathroom before it's too late .
    That's actually SFJs. ISFPs are the people who whine "I HAVE TO GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!"

    ISFPs are quite idealistic. Everyone has to be treated the same way, is what ISFPs would belive in.
    Of course not. The only common thread of the Fi function is that it is guided by its value set. It can hold literally any value on the face of this Earth, regardless of whether that value is helping your fellow man, or committing genocide against all Swedes.


    An ESTP wouldn't care too much on the global level. Yes they would help people when others are treated unfairly (ESTPs hate injustice), but highly unlikely they would have an idealistic set of beliefs.
    Harry doesn't. He just wants to save the damn world, he doesn't wanna end tyranny or anything of the sort, he just wants to end Voldemort because Voldemort is hurting people.

    What on earth made you say this?
    Fi can be very, very self-absorbed, depending on the values of the holder (see: Carl Johnson burying a construction foreman in concrete because he hit on his sister).

    And would not go on a idealistic crusade. I think that applies to ESTPs more than ISFPs. Fi is much more idealistic than Fe.
    Yes and no. Fi can be more idealistic than Fe, but it can be much less so. It depends on what the Fi holder values, as Fi is a strictly individualistic function (whereas Fe is uniformly empathetic). For a very direct example, before you stands a rather cynical and egotistical Fi user.

    Yes you are correct, it doe imply Fe. But Harry does not want to be a hero (you should read the book). He wants to be just another kid. An ESTP in his shoes (fame, love, attention) would have nailed at least 100 girl (give or take). He would have atleast formed his own rock group.
    That's a very damn unrealistic portrayal of ESTPs.

    Would anyone really want to wake up one day and find out they're a hero because their parents died, and will be constantly pressured and hounded for life with a messianic destiny that they may very well be unable to fulfill, letting everyone else down in the process? I mean... anyone? ExxPs included?
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  5. #295
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseHeartDothKnow View Post
    I might be completely wrong here, so please forgive me, but the trials were the practical part of a DADA exam, so the teacher couldn't tell the students what to do there and then. What Lupin did, was to spend time teaching them how to combat all the creatures as the year progressed, hence the trials were a matter of memory, and general magical skill.
    He still needed to figure out what goes where, which he did exceedingly well (to the point that he did better than Hermione on the test, getting the top score for the year). An Fi-dom would be unlikely to have such good deductive abilities.

    DADA calls alot on personal feelings for Harry in 3rd year, the Boggart requires feelings of laughter, the Dementor, feelings of elation...to get these, wouldn't it be mainly Fi?
    Ridiculous. So non-Fi users are emotionless, Spock-like creatures? No, they just don't focus on internally held values, which is very different.
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  6. #296
    Riva
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    Harry doesn't. He just wants to save the damn world, he doesn't wanna end tyranny or anything of the sort, he just wants to end Voldemort because Voldemort is hurting people.
    no he doesn't want to save the world does he? He simply wants to get rid of Voldemort not because of his take over the world plan. He knows how dangerous, evil, cruel and hurtful Vol is. He has 1st hand experience.

    Fi can be very, very self-absorbed, depending on the values of the holder (see: Carl Johnson burying a construction foreman in concrete because he hit on his sister).
    Anyone could be self absorbed. Fi does not imply self absorbed selfishness.
    Yes and no. Fi can be more idealistic than Fe, but it can be much less so. It depends on what the Fi holder values, as Fi is a strictly individualistic function (whereas Fe is uniformly empathetic). For a very direct example, before you stands a rather cynical and egotistical Fi user.

    I don't use my Fe the same way others do. Each one could use his/her functions the way they are inclined to. It is obvious that you are making relations to your Fi and Harry's Fi and seeing differences. So you simply believe that Harry couldn't be possibly an Fi user.
    That's a very damn unrealistic portrayal of ESTPs.
    I was just teasing about the rock band and the girls. I think it was obvious wasn't it.

    Would anyone really want to wake up one day and find out they're a hero because their parents died, and will be constantly pressured and hounded for life with a messianic destiny that they may very well be unable to fulfill, letting everyone else down in the process? I mean... anyone? ExxPs included?
    It is ESTPs who are naturally heroic and brave. Not ISFP. I've seen over and pover and over again ESTP being pissed off and take actions when people around them whether they like them or not are treated unfairly.

    So your point actually proves that he is an ISFP. Not an ESTP. ESTP would not wait or does not have to wait till his parents get killed to take on a mission to bring down an asshole. An ISFP would.

    Harry was pushed in to that destiny. This is why he became a hero.

  7. #297
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseHeartDothKnow View Post
    I might be completely wrong here, so please forgive me, but the trials were the practical part of a DADA exam, so the teacher couldn't tell the students what to do there and then. What Lupin did, was to spend time teaching them how to combat all the creatures as the year progressed, hence the trials were a matter of memory, and general magical skill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    He still needed to figure out what goes where, which he did exceedingly well (to the point that he did better than Hermione on the test, getting the top score for the year). An Fi-dom would be unlikely to have such good deductive abilities.
    Se is 'practice makes perfect'. And as FalseHeartDothKnow mentioned Harry had enough practice throughout the year. SPs are so good at some tasks (especailly something they enjoy) they could probably do it with their eyes closed (metaphor). And Harry not only had more than enough practice he also loved it. He loved Lupin's lessons and loved the subject more than Ginny. He probably dreamed about defense against the dark arts more than he dreamed about Ginny.

    Now that my friend implies that he had his Se working. Not Ti.

  8. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    Se is 'practice makes perfect'. And as FalseHeartDothKnow mentioned Harry had enough practice throughout the year. SPs are so good at some tasks (especailly something they enjoy) they could probably do it with their eyes closed. (metaphor)
    Se does it for fun. "Practice makes perfect" is just some saying to achieve perfection.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #299
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Se does it for fun. "Practice makes perfect" is just some saying to achieve perfection.
    Yes that is why I edited the post. You should go back and read it.

    Edit -

    If you love something and it intrigues you would actually do it so many times that you could do it with your eyes closed. That is Se. When you keep on mimicking something so many times you could simply do it without thinking too much about it. This is why SPs are so good at sports, music or whatever field they like. (Not it does not mean that every SP is good at sports and music. I know.)

  10. #300
    Riva
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    He still needed to figure out what goes where,
    One major reason Harry Potter wasn't the ideal hero (or admirable hero) was, he sucked at figuring things out. He needed Hermione or Dumbledore. He had shitty Ti.

    And being a person who has well developed Ti, depends on it and loves it made me itch at the fact that Harry was so bad at it and didn't use it. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

    It's like when a character on TV or book can't figure out something which is soooooooooooo simple. I am sure you must have had this experience. but what I and others fail to realize is that although it must be easy for you, it must not be easy for others.

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