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  1. #191
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daate View Post
    Definitely think Dumbledore is an INFJ, through and through. Structured enough to plot out this entire scheme, sensitive enough to choose the opposite path of Grindlewald's in the end despite the allure of power, idealistic enough to persistently see the good in people, extraordinarily insightful about peoples' motives, self-aware enough to understand his own flaws and yet to try to do what he thought was best for the entire wizarding world. Not perfect, but doing what he thought was best.

    Dumbledore is a matured INTP. This is clear if youve read all the books. Hes an NT temperament and an introverted (Enneagram) 5: private, secretive, often detached, very clever and only tells his pieces, including Harry, what hes up to on a need-to-know basis. Hes not a J, either; compare him to J characters like Hermoine, Snape and McGonnegal, hes nothing like that; for one thing, he doesnt hesitate to bend rules to fit the cirumstances. Hes much more flexible.

    Dumbledore vs. Voldemort is a classic NTP vs. NTJ matchup.
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    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the casethen it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  2. #192
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Congratulations on a successful folk typology discussion. I have read only several posts until I could no longer stop myself from rolling on the floor laughing. The following series of remarks caught my attention. "Hermione is an INFJ because she is idealistic, sensitive and structured. Voldemort is an INTJ because he is a master-mind and operates alone."

    In short, somebody is this type because they have this or that personality trait. Very well, how about people who have contradictory personality traits? In Harry Potter we have seen them all in very few contexts, hence, we have not seen enough of their lives to find many contradictory qualities. Thus, we can successfully use the folk typology method to type them. However, this method breaks down when we deal with real people where we do see contradictory behaviors.

    Besides, I don't even need to cite contradictions in human behavior to refute the folk typology method. I can just show that it entails absurd conclusions. I have two cats, one of them meows a great deal and seeks out attention a lot. It has the 'outgoing' personality trait, hence I should type my cat as an Extrovert. It seems to be altogether disorganized, or shifty focus and always in tune with the present moment. Its also very aggressive and not afraid to show displeasure (T)! Hey, its an ESTP! The other account seems to be more withdrawn, also chaotic (P), less in tune with the present moment, hence not as easily responsive to stimuli, yet very gentle and non-aggressive (F). I have an INFP cat! Two cats, an ESTP and an INFP!

    No, really, what non-sense are we talking here? If this is what your typology teaches you, it is obviously worthless. After all, what good is this mere classification system that allows me to type pets and humans alike!


    It seems to me that it would be far more plausible to define a type as a tendency towards a certain way of thinking or acting even rather than action in itself. So, a Sensor is not somebody who is simple and practical, but someone who has a tendency to rely on the five senses rather than imagination. That way, the problem of contradictory behaviors does not undermine typology as in that case we simply have a human who is not being true to his tendencies at the moment, rather than a piece of evidence attesting to the worthlessness of the entire enterprise.
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  3. #193
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    I give credit to SolitaryWalker for stating the faulty ways in which people type other people. It is done so often in this thread as well on the forums. I have fell victim to folk typology many times before and probably still do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    This is not exactly polite of you, you know.
    I don't necessarily see anything wrong with what I said.

    Personally I can't decide between an ISTJ and INFJ for Hermione, but I definitely don't see her as an ISFJ. In the movies, she is pictured as one, but she is portrayed as much sharper, more sensible and no-nonsense in the books. That said, everyone probably has a little different interpretation of her, because she has really many different traits and some might stand out more than others for each reader. I, for once, always imagined her as an ENTP friend of mine who was very Hermione-ish when she was younger, so I see the "T" as pretty prominent and even contemplated an INTJ for her at first. But really, Rowling herself said that Hermione is based on herself when she was her age, and as I believe Rowling is an INFJ, I guess the INFJ is the safest guess (and I'm pretty sure that Hermione displays Ni fairly often). However, she definitely subscribed her a lot of ISTJ tendencies also (why not? a writer can base their character on multiple people / characters / whatever after all), so it isn't really possible to tell her type for sure. I'm pretty sure she shows T, F, SJ and N tendencies on various occassions.
    Don't put the 'hermione was based on her when she was her age therefore she must be the same type' stuff. It's an invalid argument. Much too many loopholes to even consider. No hermione doesn't use Ni. You were probably confusing it for Si which she uses much more often. Hermione is more likely an ISTJ if not an ISFJ.

  4. #194
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    I give credit to SolitaryWalker for stating the faulty ways in which people type other people. It is done so often in this thread as well on the forums. I have fell victim to folk typology many times before and probably still do it.
    Me too, but sometimes I can't avoid it when typing fictional characters if I haven't pinpointed them to an archetype. I hope I'm not using this on real people too much, though. Or animals (Although one my cats is an ESTP, you know - he shows clear inclinations to Ti - he always wants to find out how things work - and loads of tertiary Fe!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki
    Don't put the 'hermione was based on her when she was her age therefore she must be the same type' stuff. It's an invalid argument. Much too many loopholes to even consider. No hermione doesn't use Ni. You were probably confusing it for Si which she uses much more often. Hermione is more likely an ISTJ if not an ISFJ.
    No, this is not what I wanted to imply, actually. I'm not that interested in typing HP characters in the first place, because I think they're often inconsistent (and I refuse to believe Dumbledore is an INFJ only because he is so nice, etc). I have worded it wrongly when I said "INFJ is the safest guess" - if I should choose one type for Hermione it would be an ISTJ, actually, because she clearly shows Si and Te most often. HOWEVER, I think one cannot deny she sometimes shows Fe qualities (and Ni qualities as well, imo - she's always the one who explains other people's motivations to the boys, and that's something Si types are not very good at) and that's because Rowling might have occassionally based her on herself. My point is, I don't think Hermione can be typed with 100% accuracy, because she's a compilation of traits of more types. But in my opinion, the prevalent type is indeed an ISTJ.
    Her head hung down
    Gazed at earth, finally keen,
    As the rabbit at the stoat,
    Till the earth was sky,
    Sky that was green,
    And brown clouds passed
    Like chestnut leaves along the ground.

    - SUSAN ANN AND IMMORTALITY, T. E. Hulme

  5. #195
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Dumbledore is a matured INTP.
    Same as I thought - and a fan of chaos theory. If I tweak a little here and push a little there, probably it would give a great effect later on.
    Still, he's got a quite strict planning for what would happen after his death...
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
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  6. #196
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Solitary walker what other classification system do you propose in order to replace this "Folk typology method" which seeks out personality traits and behavioral tendencies rather then actual cognitive perception of these characters?.

    After all it would be prudent for you to suggest a different one, when you have debunked another.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  7. #197
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Maybe it's a wrong use of typology. But. I use it to describe behaviour.
    If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck.
    Then again, I refrain from typing anyone but myself (where I do know the inner workings - more or less) and fictional characters.
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  8. #198
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    Solitary walker what other classification system do you propose in order to replace this "Folk typology method" which seeks out personality traits and behavioral tendencies rather then actual cognitive perception of these characters?.

    After all it would be prudent for you to suggest a different one, when you have debunked another.
    This is a tricky question.

    The only way we could construct a plausible alternative system is by defining a type as a solidified unconscious tendency rather than a mere behavior. Hence, Intuition is not the behavior of being creative, but the tendency towards abstract thought.

    In order for us to conclude that a certain person is an intuitive type, its not enough to see that he is an abstract thinker, but we'd need to ensure that thinking in the abstract is natural to him. In other words, we would have to ensure that the person in questioning is behaving in a way that is natural to him or her. In other words, we have to find a scenario where the person in question is not forced to behave in a certain way by circumstances and is being true to his natural tendencies. When we see that when a person has a clear-cut choice between focusing on the senses and thinking in the abstract, and he consistently chooses the latter over the former, we may conclude that he has a natural tendency towards abstract thought.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  9. #199
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Dumbledore is an INFJ. I just can't seem him being anything else.

    Harry Potter is an INFP. Definitely N. Definitely NF. Definitely INF.

    Hermione is either an ISTJ or an INTJ. She is really practical, but I do think she is a bit more on the curious side.

    Any debates/reasonings, come to me.
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  10. #200
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niaurus View Post
    Everyone is so ENTP to you maybe because you're an ENTP yourself?

    In the newer movies Ron seems kinda introverted, but in the books...
    And I think JKR must have many similarities with Harry (duh, because the book is called Harry Potter and the...).

    Harry: ISFP
    Ron: ESFP
    Hermione: INFJ or ISFJ
    Dumbledore: INFJ
    Voldemort: INTJ

    And no, not because I am an ENTP. Can you give me reasons as to why they are not ENTPs? My type does not cloud my judgement.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

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