User Tag List

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 76

Thread: Tolkien

  1. #1
    Reason vs Being Array ragashree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Mine
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,770

    Default Tolkien

    I think JRR Tolkien is fairly easy to type from the available evidence:

    INFP

    If you think differently, I will be happy to refute this discuss it with you. However, please try to come up with better evidence than the wild semi-informed speculation than I have just been reading in this thread http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...general-2.html (I have a hangover already today)

    Also free to provide supporting evidence if you have any! I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who know more than me about the subject, given the extent of Tolkien fandom. Whether there are any posting on here is another matter, of course...

  2. #2

    Default

    INTP

    evidence:
    "What do you mean? Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good on this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"

    "I wish life was not so short, he thought. languages take such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.

    "It needs but one foe to breed a war, and those who have not swords can still die upon them." (seems more rational like an INTP, as opposed to INFPs who seem to think that everything will be ok if they stick to their values)

    "It's wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope." (ditto)

    "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."


    Most of all, I tend to think that fiction authors who make the most distinct characters are more likely to be thinkers. I can always tell when I'm reading a book by an NF because all the characters are NFs, except the bad ones.
    I don't wanna!

  3. #3
    lackluster primate Array Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5/8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    4,760

    Default

    INTP.

    Nice evidence, booya.

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks, Night.

    Here's another quote that reeks of INTPness

    "Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing that they evidently prefer."
    I don't wanna!

  5. #5
    Winter Rose Array Jennifer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INtP
    Enneagram
    549 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII
    Posts
    37,358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Actually, J. R. R. Tolkien, whom I regard as either an ESTj or ISTp (socionics), loved languages apparently.
    Gawd.

    The man was a professional philologist and professor. His translation of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" was a standard for many years and might still be, I haven't checked recently.

    It's rather like saying Pete Rose loved baseball or YoYo Ma loved the cello -- just, wow. He was a highly respected professional in a very tiny field regardless of how his Middle Earth works might have succeeded or tanked.

    I always saw him as INTP, with an attachment to the concrete world; after all, he fought in a war and went through some hard economic times and didn't have the luxury of always living in his head. he also loved to explore the countryside and lose himself in nature, and it was a crushing blow when England became industrialized; the loss of that world was very powerful to him, and he couldn't escape it, and it comes out when he describes Saruman's ruining of the Shire.

    He had the precision of word meanings that's typical of INTP; if you read any of his religious writings and letters, he's got the same style of explanation as an INTP would have; and he's definitely got a coherent large picture of the general overall history of his world that S's don't seem to focus on as much.

    He never could even complete his work and was constantly editing and reediting (hence his son Christopher, who is very ST I think, spent years editing his father's notes and papers and releasing them so people could see the "work in progress"). The Silmarilion was never really "finished," he was always unhappy with the ideas and how they balanced each other or didn't.

    He suffered horrible writer's block at times, another typical "P" problem; the story sort of had to "write itself" or he couldn't make progress... I think it took 12 years to finish LOTR, and he was stalled at Balin's Tomb for a few years.

    You should have seen his arguments with his editors over minor corrections to his text. When everything is "balanced," someone changing something really throws it all off and ruins it; he was very particular about his writing and phrasing, even cantankerous.

    And honestly, INTPs tend to be very good at the large epic general overview style of writing, or the mythical feel writing, but not really great at realistic dialog. Tolkien shows a lot of those problems; some of his passages are beautiful and evocative, but much of the Two Towers seemed purposeless and he was sacrificing emotional/dramatic momentum just to appease the mechanics of the story.

    He would probably have been the "self-preservationist" style of INTP, not the more dramatic "intimate" sort. He did seem to enjoy people as an idea and loved his children in a "kindly" way and most of all loved to tell them stories, he was also accessible to peers and students at the college on the professional level; but he only ever really opened himself up to a few friends and tended to remain detached anyway, and really liked to close himself up in his house with his wife Edith much of the time to explore his own projects.

    I think the contrast shows best when he writes about his religious conversations with Lewis (INTJ), with whom he had been close for some time although later they seemed to grow apart.

    EDIT: I wrote all this before I saw Booya's or Night's posts.
    Hey Capa. We're only stardust.

    She was waiting, but she didn't know for what. She was aware only of her solitude, and of the penetrating cold, and of a greater weight in the region of her heart. ~ Albert Camus

    Movie Reviews: What Jenny Saw

  6. #6
    Reason vs Being Array ragashree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Mine
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,770

    Default

    [QUOTE=booyalab;408210]INTP

    evidence:
    "What do you mean? Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good on this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"
    Extroverted intuition

    Also comic relief/character revealing device (sounds like a Gandalf comment to a hobbit, though I don't have the book at hand to be sure)

    "I wish life was not so short, he thought. languages take such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.
    Don't we all get this? All who have ever suffered from intellectual curiosity, at any rate.


    "It needs but one foe to breed a war, and those who have not swords can still die upon them." (seems more rational like an INTP, as opposed to INFPs who seem to think that everything will be ok if they stick to their values)
    That would depend on whether you presupposed that said INFP was an actual idiot, I suppose.

    "It's wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope." (ditto)
    Ditto also

    "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."
    Well, I think that should be pretty self-evident to anyone who has ever lived near a live dragon. (Unless you think the use of the word "calculation" means anything in particular, which I don't.)



    Most of all, I tend to think that fiction authors who make the most distinct characters are more likely to be thinkers.
    Interesting. Do you start by knowing the likely type of a writer before you have actually read anything by them, or do you read a book, decide that you like it, then decide that because you like it the writer is therefore a thinker? If you can't categorically say that you do the former you are likely to be opening yourself to bias towards a preconceived viewpoint.

    I can always tell when I'm reading a book by an NF because all the characters are NFs, except the bad ones.
    That sounds more like you are reading a book by a bad or indifferent writer, regardless of their type. It's the sort of thing someone would do if they thought the only thing that mattered in life was some kind of vague touchy feely emoting all over the place. One of the qualities that actually defines the better writers is that they are usually able to value a broad range of human qualities and put them into their characters.

  7. #7
    Babylon Candle Array Venom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    3w4 so/sp
    Posts
    2,126

    Default

    ROFL! Poor INFPs, who the hell do they have left now? I used to think of Tolkien as the best case scenario INFP.


    Tolkien is definitely one of my all time favorite writers. He had a knack for going the extra mile in creating a world. I mean, what other fantasy writers do you know that wrote an entire "bible/mythology style" book for his made up world? (im serious, but i forget what its called)

  8. #8

    Default

    ragashree, I'm sorry I shattered your world. Can we leave it at that?

    If it helps, it makes no difference to my sense of self worth whether Tolkien is INTP or not. So you can be sure that I wasn't just disagreeing with you just to crush your dream of him being an INFP.
    I don't wanna!

  9. #9
    WTF is this dude saying? Array A Schnitzel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Socionics
    B.S.
    Posts
    1,155

    Default

    I'm not sure what type he is, but I can guarantee you it's not INFP.

    There is very little emotion in his works. There's some implied emotion, but he never expresses it head on.

  10. #10
    Reason vs Being Array ragashree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Mine
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,770

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Gawd.

    The man was a professional philologist and professor. His translation of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" was a standard for many years and might still be, I haven't checked recently.

    It's rather like saying Pete Rose loved baseball or YoYo Ma loved the cello -- just, wow. He was a highly respected professional in a very tiny field regardless of how his Middle Earth works might have succeeded or tanked.
    Yeah, some of the silliness on there was just too much for me to take. That's a lot of the reason why I started this thread!

    I wouldn't mind INTP as an alternative possibility for Tolkien, as they certainly share a similar communication style and work habits in many respects, but I really do think it's far less likely than INFP. Most of the evidence you present would fit either type pretty well. His extreme perfectionism (emphasis on the extreme, as he never really seemed capable of accepting something as being good enough even when complete) and tendency to become easily discouraged suggests INFP more strongly to me though. His focus on morality and the conflict between good and evil is absolutely at the core of his work, and seem to me to be classic INFP themes. They are probably more evident from reading the Silmarillion and supporting documentation (none of which I have here to quote, unfortunately). I see very little working out of interesting ideas for their own sake within the structure, which always seems to be relating almost relentlessly back to the core values and precepts which are established early on.

Similar Threads

  1. There and Back Again: One Year of Tolkien Book/Film Discussion
    By MacGuffin in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: 08-21-2012, 04:23 PM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-31-2008, 07:47 PM
  3. A Birthday Toast to Tolkien!
    By Oberon in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 07-11-2008, 12:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •