Thom Yorke

[Thalassa]

Is it impossible for you people to look at the substance of what someone says? Making condescending remarks about what you believe are my motivations for calling you out is possibly the most childish/ useless thing you could do (at least my childishness has substance). I know you're trying to save face but the only way you're going to do that is by truthfully typing Thom York. Not proving superiority over me with your bad rhetorical tactics.

You call people stupid, childish, and other things, but Stigmata is being condescending? I also think Stigmata's posts are extremely substantial, what about the posts where he gave examples of Yorke's explanations of Radiohead songs?

Dude.

 

[MacGuffin]

Is it impossible for you people to look at the substance of what someone says? Making condescending remarks about what you believe are my motivations for calling you out is possibly the most childish/ useless thing you could do (at least my childishness has substance). I know you're trying to save face but the only way you're going to do that is by truthfully typing Thom York. Not proving superiority over me with your bad rhetorical tactics.

You've already lost.

Which is sad, considering this wasn't even a competition.

/ENTJed

 

[chickpea]

do you have any good reasons for isfp other than interaction styles? i don't think he's nearly down to earth enough, radiohead is one of the most conceptual mainstream bands i can think of. infj makes way more sense.

 

[Stigmata]

Is it impossible for you people to look at the substance of what someone says? Making condescending remarks about what you believe are my motivations for calling you out is possibly the most childish/ useless thing you could do (at least my childishness has substance). I know you're trying to save face but the only way you're going to do that is by truthfully typing Thom York. Not proving superiority over me with your bad rhetorical tactics.

Save face? From what? Saving face implies that at one point or another I thought my reputation was at stake, which I didn't at all. For me, this thread and attempting to type him accurately wasn't about ego masturbation; I was just sharing my reasoning behind why I thought he was an INFJ, which I why I took the time to cite interviews excerpts as well as supplement that with a bit of my own analysis of the band. I lose equally as little from being wrong as I gain from being right here.

My only annoyance with you is that you joined the discussion with this gunslinger mentality of shooting off insults and telling people why they're wrong without ever really explaining what makes you right. And then you invoke the "Well any type is capable of using or display X trait", well, no shit. These types are thread are based on empirical based speculations. Obviously none of us know him, therefore we can't say with any sort of certainty exactly what type he is. Saying any type can use metaphors says absolutely nothing; That could be used to classify him as an INFJ just as equally as it can to classify him as another type, rendering the point moot.

 

[Thalassa]

Yeah I want to talk about this symbolism/conceptual thing...I'm going to go back to Jared Leto because he's ISFP and I'm very familiar with him and the music of 30 Seconds to Mars...he talks about things being hurricanes, burying him, astrological symbols, and even about someone having a map of the world on his face...this is Ni worked into the lyrics...however, these are tangible symbols. We all can infer through our senses why we would call something a hurricane, that burying someone means being overwhelmed, and a map of the world on someone's face is quite visual and depicts a particular image as a symbol. The rest of the lyrics are quite earthy, though, it isn't hard to figure out what 30 Seconds to Mars songs are "about." They aren't overly abstract at their core. Also, EMOTIONAL INTENSITY seems to be a real priority in the music, rather than intellectual or symbolic detachment...immersion is key instead. That intensity is both Fi and Se I think.

 

[Orangey]

So far all I've been hearing in defense of INFJ is "Radiohead is so conceptual, and Ni is conceptual, so he must be INFJ." I'm sorry, but that is a very weak way of typing anybody. For one thing, even if it's true that he shows shades of Ni in his writing/speaking/musical arrangements, that says nothing about the position of Ni in his stacking. What makes it dominant Ni and not tertiary Ni? If anything, the overly pretentious way in which it seems to get used (if indeed Ni is being used) would seem to indicate the clumsy usage/fetishization of an inferior or tertiary function. Second, as with any artist, there is little that can be gleaned about their type from their artwork alone. Here's why, in Thom's particular case: (1) he's not the sole creator of the music or the lyrics, (2) there is no stable way to interpret functions from music/lyrics (and especially the music itself without regard for the lyrical content...that's quite preposterous), and (3) even if there were, it would be difficult to tie that to the type of the author because anybody can engage in Ni (or any functionally stereotyped) appearing behavior regardless of their actual type.

Additionally, I would also add that comparing one artist's (of a known type) work to another's as a means of typing is just silly. They could both be the same type, but differences in skill level, interest, taste, and circumstance could lead to each having wildly different artistic products in all respects.

I agree with GetOffMyBiscuits that he seem BtS and not CtC and he seems very Fi (not Fe at all.) That means he's most likely not INFJ or any type with Fe in the dom or aux position.

Ahh I've known a few INFJs irl...and none of them were this 'chart the course' kind of INFJ that you describe. Moreover...I had a relationship with an INFJ male 5w4 that was SO NOT 'chart the course' I couldn't even tell you. If he could get lost in his 'imaginary world of thoughts' and never return...he would get lost in his 'imaginary world of thoughts' and never return.

It is spooky when I watch these Thom Yorke videos because I see my irl INFJ 5w4 in him. This makes me suspect my irl 5w4 was sx/sp. I don't know though. But everything...down to the pissyness. Uff. LOL!

INFJs have a Chart the Course interaction style. If you suspect someone is an INFJ IRL but you don't think they are CtC, then either you don't understand or recognize CtC properly or they are not INFJs.

You call people stupid, childish, and other things, but Stigmata is being condescending? I also think Stigmata's posts are extremely substantial, what about the posts where he gave examples of Yorke's explanations of Radiohead songs?

Dude.

Stigmata was being condescending.

 

[Starry]

INFJs have a Chart the Course interaction style. If you suspect someone is an INFJ IRL but you don't think they are CtC, then either you don't understand or recognize CtC properly or they are not INFJs.

You are right with regards to me not understanding 'Chart the Course' interaction style properly then. So you are saying that INFJ automatically ='s 'Chart the Course' interaction style?

 

[Orangey]

You are right with regards to me not understanding 'Chart the Course' interaction style properly then. So you are saying that INFJ automatically ='s 'Chart the Course' interaction style?

Yes.

 

[Starry]

Yes.

Okay...then it is my lack of understanding/identifying because I am certain of MBTI in the cases I referred to. The 5w4 I mentioned above is kinda 'all over the place'. In my mind I could actually fit him into every interaction style except get things going. But I have limited knowledge on the subject and so there you have it.

 

[Thalassa]

Okay...then it is my lack of understanding/identifying because I am certain of MBTI in the cases I referred to. The 5w4 I mentioned above is kinda 'all over the place'. In my mind I could actually fit him into every interaction style except get things going. But I have limited knowledge on the subject and so there you have it.

See I don't think interaction styles are the best way to type people.

Of course, I also don't think an Fi dom would think it was "sad" that his fans didn't get the real meaning of his song without him informing them of it, and insist it came from the great beyond and that he didn't write it.

I think Thom Yorke rejects inferior Se as well as having Ni/Ti.

I won't budge on this because I think it's incredibly obvious he isn't an ISFP.

 

[Starry]

See I don't think interaction styles are the best way to type people.

Of course, I also don't think an Fi dom would think it was "sad" that his fans didn't get the real meaning of his song without him informing them of it, and insist it came from the great beyond and that he didn't write it.

I think Thom Yorke rejects inferior Se as well as having Ni/Ti.

I won't budge on this because I think it's incredibly obvious he isn't an ISFP.

Oh I agree with you 100%. I still am thoroughly convinced that Yorke is INFJ 5w4 sx/sp. I'm just admitting to Orangey and GetOffMyBiscuts that I really have no business talking about interaction styles because I really don't know enough about them. Having quickly reviewed them however I do not feel they are a 'strong' way to type celebs/people either.

 

[Thalassa]

I think it can be difficult to type celebrities in general because you don't know them individually, like one on one, talking to them...so it's assuredly less effective than someone you really know well or talk to on a regular basis...but I still think all signs point to Ni with Thom.

 

[Orangey]

Identifying interaction styles, while still not perfectly straightforward, is more reliable than declarations of "he's obviously XXXX type" or "the mood of his music is so XXXX."

 

[Starry]

Identifying interaction styles, while still not perfectly straightforward, is more reliable than declarations of "he's obviously XXXX type" or "the mood of his music is so XXXX."

I can't speak to this because I honestly didn't know that the interaction styles were so 'set-in-stone'...like all INFJs are 'chart the course' and all ENFPs are 'get things started'... But just out of curiosity...you think Yorke is what...ISFP 4w5? Because he seems 'behind the scenes'?

 

[Thalassa]

I'd love to know where his Se is then, because no one has explained that at all. If anyone is going to insist IxxP interaction style, then why not INFP?

 

[Orangey]

I can't speak to this because I honestly didn't know that the interaction styles were so 'set-in-stone'...like all INFJs are 'chart the course' and all ENFPs are 'get things started'... But just out of curiosity...you think Yorke is what...ISFP 4w5? Because he seems 'behind the scenes'?

I'd love to know where his Se is then, because no one has explained that at all. If anyone is going to insist IxxP interaction style, then why not INFP?

I would buy INFP or ISFP. I just don't think he's an FJ of any sort.

 

[Southern Kross]

He says that his inspiration is a bit like constructing a parallel universe, and has little to do with him. As far as I'm concerned, that suggests Ni, because, while Ji functions have the propensity to become egocentric, Ni is very difficult for the ego to envelop; if the ego were to take hold of one's intuition, their psyche would become warped at best. Could you imagine believing you are the abstract tapestries that rush in and out of your brain? That would be lunacy. Inspiration comes with ease for the Ni dom, but extemporaneously, with or without immediate impact from the environment. Furthermore, the notion that his music illustrations this "parallel world" rather than him as a person, suggests that he is a 5 rather than a 4, as E5s tend to want their perspective to be understood, while on the other hand E4s tend to want their selves understood. Fine distinction.

That's all I got.

Yeah, this makes me think he can't really be Fi-dom. IXFPs can't really separate themselves from their creations even if its about something or someone else entirely. We want to express a particular personal perspective/feeling/atmosphere/belief through art - and we would want to inspire a similar reaction in others ("feel as I feel and then you will understand"). Whereas he seems keen to distance himself from his work. From what I understand, Ni doms are interested in exploring ideas rather than a personal emotional experience. I've also heard that Ni doesn't need an empathic audience or for people to understand the rationale behind an expression, its just about putting it out there (read some of what is said about Ni humour in the thread a few months ago). Some INFJ artists seem to want to take themselves out the picture entirely and their creativity comes through channeling inspiration from seemingly out of nowhere. I remember watching an interview with Meryl Streep where she talked about this.

This is slowly convincing me he's a INFJ

As for enneatype: I think him the 5w4 'iconoclast' description fits him well:

5w4s

5w4s are more fantastical and mythologize about how they aren't human. They are natural iconoclasts and disidentification is central to their self-image. Seeing things the normal way that everyone else does just seems "wrong" to them. They don't get as openly awed and apalled as their 5w6 siblings since worldly reality often pales in comparison to the reality of their internal experience. They are both more "cloaked" and also more emotionally immersing than 5w6s. They indulge in epic language to relive their feelings as anything less would seem too trite for the richness and significance of their internal experience. They tend to be less argumentative than 5w6s and would rather be convinced than convince others. They are more sociable and whimsical than 5w6s and want to show you there's more to them than meets the eye.

The 5w4 inner landscape has a certain richness that's both a blessing and a curse. From being both in awe and terrified of just about everything they've contemplated their minds are anything but "normal" in the way they perceive things. They think they will always know more about others than others will ever know about them. They feel they are impossible to get to know and the most one can see is whatever persona they exhibit. Similar to core fours they transform this into their own brand of elitism.

5w4s being iconoclasts force their way to the bottom of things to find meaning, safety with the known and familiar be damned. They have a "counter" mentality in how they focus on the undersides and opposites of things: "It was so dark it became light"..."that abhorrent yet fascinating person". Paradoxes, illusions, the twists and turns of fate, and unexplainable phenomena are representative of "something" that underlies and supercedes current reality and makes it richer. The unseen is more important than the seen. What is intangible matters more than what is tangible. What isn't obvious matters more than what is obvious. What is counterintuitive and fits is more aesthetic and elegant and therefore more significant than what is intuitive and fits. If the pieces fit when they shouldn't it's "anything but coincidental" and can be traced to something meaningful. When something is counterintuitive and makes sense it feels like a deep insight that was divinely revealed to them, a rare and special treasure that shows itself once in a blue moon. Something that's intuitive and makes sense is a dime a dozen that can only pale in comparison.

5w4s tend to be more subjective than 5w6s. Their thinking process is less incremental and has more "illogical leaps". They search for that one angle of looking at things that magically makes everything make sense to them. They have a bias towards seeing underlying patterns that fit together aesthetically and elegantly as more real and therefore closer to the truth. They see a plethora of nonrandom things that just happen to line up towards a single conclusion as evidence of some "higher meaning" to support their conclusion, or even an indication of fate. Such a lining up of tells amidst random chaos couldn't be chance or random. There must be something there that isn't obvious but no less significant if not more so. This makes 5w4s more likely to see things that aren't there than miss things that are there. They tend to have occultic and esoteric areas of interest

Source

 

[OrangeAppled]

I'm on the INFJ 5w4 bandwagon, but because I really believe it. As for instinctual stacking, I'd actually say sp/so. I don't see sx at all..... His lyrics seem much more "social" than "sexual", IMO. I'm not a Radiohead fan though, so in that way, I admit I am not the best judge.

Edit: Oh yeah, and in terms of interaction style, why is he NOT chart the course? I DO see him as chart the course. He talks about starting things off, being the one to initiate with the rest of the band (not following through can be a fickle N-dom thing). Behind-the-scenes people tend to wait for someone else to initiate. They tend to jump in as things get going within a group or go off as an individual & allow others to join.

He's also direct in his communication. IxFPs are more indirect, even when blunt. Both can be blunt or diplomatic, and it's hard for me to articulate the difference, but I see him as Ni-dom blunt, not Fi-dom blunt.

The theme is having a course of action to follow. People of this stylefocus on knowing what to do and keeping themselves, the group, or the project on track. They prefer to enter a situation having an idea of what is to happen. They identify a process to accomplish a goal and have a somewhat contained tension as they work to create and monitor a plan. The aim is not the plan itself, but to use it as a guide to move things along toward the goal. Their informed and deliberate decisions are based on analyzing, outlining, conceptualizing or foreseeing what needs to be done.

The theme is getting the best result possible. People of this style focus on understanding and working with the process to create a positive outcome. They see value in many contributions and consult outside inputs to make an informed decision. They aim to integrate various information sources and accommodate differing points of view. They approach others with a quiet, calm style that may not show their strong convictions. Producing, sustaining, defining, and clarifying are all ways they support a group's process. They typically have more patience than most with the time it takes to gain support through consensus for a project or to refine the result.

 

[Thalassa]

I would buy INFP or ISFP. I just don't think he's an FJ of any sort.

Well, like Southern Kross said, no Fi dom would say "This came from somewhere else [somewhere mythical in the great beyond! the devil!], I didn't write it."

It seems so glaringly obvious to me that he's Ni. Just because his voice sounds emo or something doesn't make him Fi. And again, I think his rather hoity-toity assertion that his fans are like tail-wagging dogs who aren't perceiving the "real" concept is dom Ni rejecting inferior Se.

I've known Ni types to expect people to just "get it" without telling people in the past. That's neither here nor there, but Thom Yorke is Ni.

 

[jixmixfix]

Thom yorke is the most stereotypical INFP i've ever seen he's very much into Fi in his song writing.