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Thread: Joseph Stalin

  1. #21
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Stalin admired Hitler in the beginning.
    He said: Here is a man I can work with.
    Hitler was a fellow EJ.
    Then came the Barbarossa. An act of an irrational man.
    Stalin could not get it. He cracked.
    Hitler had failed him.

    Hitler was not a T.
    He was not even an S.

    Such things happen.

  2. #22
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Stalin admired Hitler in the beginning.
    He said: Here is a man I can work with.
    Hitler was a fellow EJ.
    Then came the Barbarossa. An act of an irrational man.
    Stalin could not get it. He cracked.
    Hitler had failed him.

    Hitler was not a T.
    He was not even an S.

    Such things happen.
    The tale of two lovers torn! It's so dramatic! Good discussion here.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    He followed no bullshit type of approach: "Says here he studied economics in Sorbonne before the revolution. Shoot him, and send his family to the gulag for re-education"
    You do know that his habit of going after the families was a result of his Georgian upbringing right? Family feuds were a common thing in traditional Georgian society, and if you took action against an enemy it was often customary to take action against their families as well - or else their descendents would later take revenge against you.

    Stalin's skills as a political leader were well tesified to by many, including Western leaders during WWII.

    I find it hard to believe that Stalin was ESTJ or even ISTJ. This is particularly because of the numerous testimonies to the fact that Stalin had a significant grasp of grand strategy. Winston Churchill even remarked in his memoirs about WWII of how during a meeting with Stalin in 1942, after informing about the Allied invasion of North Africa; Stalin immediately understood the importance of the operation and explained four main reasons why.

    As Churchill remarked: "I was deeply impressed with this remarkable statement. It showed the Russian Dictator's swift and complete mastery of a problem hitherto novel to him. Very few people could have comprehended in so few minutes the reasons which we had all so long been wrestling with for months. He saw it all in a flash."
    --cited in Stalin and His Generals: Soviet Military Memoirs of World War II, pg.35

    Not only was Stalin quite capable and competent in grand strategy, but also in detailed tactical matters as well. It was largely in operational matters that he lacked skill in, as was demonstrated in his poor handling of the defense of Kiev in 1941 and the counter-attack at Kharkov in early 1942.

    I'm thinking maybe INTJ?

  4. #24
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You do know that his habit of going after the families was a result of his Georgian upbringing right? Family feuds were a common thing in traditional Georgian society, and if you took action against an enemy it was often customary to take action against their families as well - or else their descendents would later take revenge against you.

    Stalin's skills as a political leader were well tesified to by many, including Western leaders during WWII.

    I find it hard to believe that Stalin was ESTJ or even ISTJ. This is particularly because of the numerous testimonies to the fact that Stalin had a significant grasp of grand strategy. Winston Churchill even remarked in his memoirs about WWII of how during a meeting with Stalin in 1942, after informing about the Allied invasion of North Africa; Stalin immediately understood the importance of the operation and explained four main reasons why.

    As Churchill remarked: "I was deeply impressed with this remarkable statement. It showed the Russian Dictator's swift and complete mastery of a problem hitherto novel to him. Very few people could have comprehended in so few minutes the reasons which we had all so long been wrestling with for months. He saw it all in a flash."
    --cited in Stalin and His Generals: Soviet Military Memoirs of World War II, pg.35

    Not only was Stalin quite capable and competent in grand strategy, but also in detailed tactical matters as well. It was largely in operational matters that he lacked skill in, as was demonstrated in his poor handling of the defense of Kiev in 1941 and the counter-attack at Kharkov in early 1942.

    I'm thinking maybe INTJ?
    Well, I do believe he was an intelligent man. And it would be wrong to assume that an intelligent SJ would not have a good grasp of strategy (there are plenty of lefties with strong right arms). To assess someone's type accurately you have to look at what the person's preferred approach is, and not necessarily what he is capable of.

    The way Stalin ran the country seems very STJ-ish to me. NTs tend to be a lot more lenient when it comes to the opposing ideas. As long as the ideas circulated in the domestic politics are not directly threatening to the NT dictator, he will allow them to exist because they could possibly lead to the improvement to the current system, or at the very least to give an air of tolerance and acceptability in the country, which will improve the ruler's standing amongst the people. SJs dictators tend to be a lot less tolerant than that. They have a crystal clear dogma, and any threat to that dogma (not just to the dictator himself) will be dealt with harshly. NTs an SPs generally tend to leave a lot more room for compromise than do SJs and NFs when it comes to ideals, rules, and general outlook on life. Those are the differences between utilitarian personalities (NTs and SPs), and cooperative personalities (SJs and NFs).

  5. #25
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Peguy, I hate to say it. But I agree with you. I am inclined to believe that Stalin was an INTJ. Somehow that makes the most sense to me. This probably depends on what a person have read about him, though. Different propaganda paints different pictures, so it's kind of hard. He manipulated Lenin and everyone around him from the relative shadows for years, and then finally seized power in a ruthless manner, driving off and/or killed Leo Trotskij and the other competitors. It's just something about the guy that screams INTJ.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  6. #26
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You do know that his habit of going after the families was a result of his Georgian upbringing right? Family feuds were a common thing in traditional Georgian society, and if you took action against an enemy it was often customary to take action against their families as well - or else their descendents would later take revenge against you.

    Stalin's skills as a political leader were well tesified to by many, including Western leaders during WWII.

    I find it hard to believe that Stalin was ESTJ or even ISTJ. This is particularly because of the numerous testimonies to the fact that Stalin had a significant grasp of grand strategy. Winston Churchill even remarked in his memoirs about WWII of how during a meeting with Stalin in 1942, after informing about the Allied invasion of North Africa; Stalin immediately understood the importance of the operation and explained four main reasons why.

    As Churchill remarked: "I was deeply impressed with this remarkable statement. It showed the Russian Dictator's swift and complete mastery of a problem hitherto novel to him. Very few people could have comprehended in so few minutes the reasons which we had all so long been wrestling with for months. He saw it all in a flash."
    --cited in Stalin and His Generals: Soviet Military Memoirs of World War II, pg.35

    Not only was Stalin quite capable and competent in grand strategy, but also in detailed tactical matters as well. It was largely in operational matters that he lacked skill in, as was demonstrated in his poor handling of the defense of Kiev in 1941 and the counter-attack at Kharkov in early 1942.

    I'm thinking maybe INTJ?
    The Soviet Union won the war because of the Land Lease and because of the massive Soviet resources in men and in space and in energy.
    Ruthlessness is not grand military strategy. Nor is quick wit.
    The Russians did not win because of Stalin. They won in spite of him.
    Hitler was able to take Ukraina because of Stalin's fateful errors in military strategy.
    Nikita says he was a flop, and Nikita knew what. He was the apparatchik in charge there.

    Churchill was not.

  7. #27
    Member Sture's Avatar
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    Although it shouldn't count for much, as I don't know a fraction of what you people do about the subject, I cast my vote for ESTJ.

    Great discussion, I very much enjoyed reading it.

  8. #28
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    I'm not obsessed with Hitler... Or Stalin. In fact, I kind of wish they never existed.

  9. #29
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Most dictators happen to be ENFJ.

  10. #30
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Most dictators happen to be ENFJ.
    Do you have any sources for this claim? I'm just interested. I'm not saying that it's bullshit, but i'd like to see some form of study on it or such.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

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