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  1. #41
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    That's good to know.

    I just wanted to figure out exactly what you think Ra was doing that made him an INTJ. Like examples of his actions and the things he has said.

    I wasn't sure what you were referring to in your original post.
    Here are a few examples:

    Ra's willingness to adapt the offensive strategy of The League of Shadows to match the unique fissure points in Gotham's culture - her profound susceptibility to criminal influence; blurred/polluted lines in enforcement of law/ethical mores; sophisticated comprehension of the relationship between economic vulnerability and emotional weakness ("Create enough hunger and everyone becomes a criminal...") speaks clearly to an individual able to accurately convert broad sociocultural pattern into a singular plan of action. As you know, powerful Ni is the ability to concisely forecast data cultivated from what might otherwise be understood as "white noise".

    I see your connection to Ra's dedication to tradition. Tradition, I suspect, is of secondary importance to his ultimate goal of eradicating unsavory elements within the human condition that prevent us from "confronting truth" (See: The Will to Act segment)

    He is fundamentally an abstract thinker. Tradition is simply his instrument of choice in furthering his essential desire to reduce psychological dependence on "untruths".

    He is willpower, given human form. To this end, Wayne's intense focus is offered perhaps as a consequence of Ra's.


    Thoughts?

  2. #42
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Here are a few examples:

    Ra's willingness to adapt the offensive strategy of The League of Shadows to match the unique fissure points in Gotham's culture - her profound susceptibility to criminal influence; blurred/polluted lines in enforcement of law/ethical mores; sophisticated comprehension of the relationship between economic vulnerability and emotional weakness ("Create enough hunger and everyone becomes a criminal...") speaks clearly to an individual able to accurately convert broad sociocultural pattern into a singular plan of action. As you know, powerful Ni is the ability to concisely forecast data cultivated from extraneous "white noise".

    I see your connection to Ra's dedication to tradition. Tradition, I suspect, is of secondary importance to his ultimate goal of eradicating unsavory elements within the human condition that prevent us from "confronting truth" (See: The Will to Act segment)

    He is fundamentally an abstract thinker. Tradition is simply his instrument of choice in furthering his essential desire to reduce psychological dependence on "untruth".

    He is willpower, given human form. To this end, Wayne's intense focus is offered perhaps as a consequence of Ra's.


    Thoughts?
    While watching the movie I got the impression that Ra was "the shadow" of Bruce Wayne. Him and Batman were similar people who worked for different sides. They were both guardian angels, in a sense, who only appeared when they were needed.

    Ra talked about how The League of Shadows waits patiently until they are needed. How they are the enforcers of mores and justice. When the scale is tipped, they appear to set it right. Batman was exact same thing, only he appeared to protect, not to destroy, like Ra.

    When I try to type a person (or a character), I try to go for the essence of the personality. What is the driving force of that person? Not so much what he says, because people may speak in a different way depending on how they are raised or what their profession is.

    Ra's driving force appeared to be the sense of duty to set something right when it went wrong. An obligation to the human civilization. A surgeon who must remove the tumor, even if it brings the patient pain. He was entrusted with this obligation by being the head of The League of Shadows. To me that's spells SJ.

    Ra had that philosophic streak in him that you mention, that's true, but that doesn't make him an N. Every monk is a philosopher to a degree, and that's what he was: a warrior monk. You also have to take into consideration that the guy is centuries old, so he had extensive wisdom that comes with it.

    The League of Shadows did adopt different techniques over time to do their work: fire in Rome, disease in London, economy in Gotham. And its true that SJs tend to be more rigid when it comes to adaptability than NTs. But if their job specifically calls for adaptability, SJs can learn that skill and wield it competently. For example, it could have been in the order's training manual that one should never repeat the same tactic to destroy a city because it lowers the possibility of success (no element of surprise), due to the fact that societies learn from great disasters and protect themselves accordingly.

  3. #43
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    He wanted her. That's affection.
    Bull. Affection is about the other person, not your own desire.

    Besides which, as I've already stated, wanting Natalie isn't exactly a minority sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Contradictions perhaps between what I said in one place and what you thought I meant somewhere else, but no.
    Contradiction:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    If I were to get ultra-psychoanalytical, I'd say she felt cheated and hurt, and was depressed, and she wanted to feel wanted by someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    .
    Yeah, she stopped being in love with Dan, because he violated her values (very important to ENFP), and broke his heart instead of the other way around. .
    It would be interesting to know what an actual ENFP thought about her type.

  4. #44
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    ^ No, that's not a contradiction. She was hurt first, then she turned around and hurt Dan.

    Eternal Sunshine: I watched it again, twice, and all I can really say for Clementine and Joel is "Undefined." Clementine is basically ESFP in the first sequence, on the train, but ENFP when she and Joel are "running away" from Mark Ruffalo (lol). She doesn't maintain the ESFP temperament that, say, Mary, Kirsten Dunst's character does. Jim Carrey as Joel acts like several types in different scenes, from INTP to INFP to ISTJ and probably more. I can't begin to pin him down.

  5. #45
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^ @ person fixated on ENFPs :rolli: whateva!

    Joel is an INTP. I completely get him.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    ^ @ person fixated on ENFPs :rolli: whateva!

    Joel is an INTP. I completely get him.
    I'm not the only one who thinks the two ladies are/could be ENFP. I asked a fellow MBTI enthusiast, introducing no bias, just saying "What type do you think X is?", and got ENFP both times. Anyway, I'm not shy about admitting I have a soft spot for ENFPs, so good on your faux-insult.

  7. #47
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I'm not the only one who thinks the two ladies are/could be ENFP. I asked a fellow MBTI enthusiast, introducing no bias, just saying "What type do you think X is?", and got ENFP both times. Anyway, I'm not shy about admitting I have a soft spot for ENFPs, so good on your faux-insult.
    Such a turn-off when people quote other people to justify their arguments.

  8. #48
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    You're the most annoying debater in history, or at least since ajblaise. I'm at least logical about it, man. I focus on the topic until you take it to a personal level, claiming that I only believe something because I'm F'd in the head, and when I defend myself, I'm "justifying." NOOOO. DO NOT WANT.

  9. #49
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^ ROFL!
    Don't get your panties in a wad!
    Yes. It is frustrating to meet your match.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    I must admit that when I watched the film I completely understood most of the way Clementine was and so that initially led me to believe that she was an ENFP however, I have since thought when trying to type people from other films or series etc that it mayb just be that I am using my empathy, not necessarily that she is the same type as me... just a thought. i think we all see ourselves in other people.. projection.

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