The Terrorists have Won

[IlyaK1986]

Originally Posted by CaptainChick

I take it you are not big into human rights.

Hello! I'm an ENTJ! I do what's rational, not what's gushy-feely! I realize that there are some things that are absolutely terrible from a feeling standpoint, which is why I stick to the numbers and not with my feelings.

Am I a cold-hearted, unfeeling bastard? When it comes to politics, absolutely. My feelings are reserved for those closest to me that my conscience would trump my rationality. I don't invoke my conscience when dealing with numbers.

And if you think I'm terrible, what about the politicians that made the decisions to drop the two bombs on Japan? Was that also merciless and cruel and evil and a flagrant disregard for human rights? All I have to say is that judging by the current state of affairs between America and Japan, had we not dropped those two bombs, things may have wound up far worse.

[SillySapienne]

Originally Posted by IlyaK1986

Hello! I'm an ENTJ! I do what's rational, not what's gushy-feely! I realize that there are some things that are absolutely terrible from a feeling standpoint, which is why I stick to the numbers and not with my feelings.

Are you Russian born, my dear, and if not, are your parents Russian immigrants?

Just curious.

[IlyaK1986]

Originally Posted by CaptainChick

Are you Russian born, my dear, and if not, are your parents Russian immigrants?

Just curious.

I MYSELF am an immigrant, thank you. But I immigrated LEGALLY. I didn't sneak in across a border. (I flew across one!)

Edit: But I love this country. It is the country of opportunity, in which anyone willing to work hard enough can rise to the top. Warren Buffett started off as a nobody and built his wealth through intelligence. Sergei Brin is also an immigrant and wham, look what he did.

While I don't agree with the view that most Americans hold of Russia, I agree that it has some issues, and I'll take America's any day to Russia's.

And I'm a citizen.

[SillySapienne]

Originally Posted by IlyaK1986

I MYSELF am an immigrant, thank you. But I immigrated LEGALLY. I didn't sneak in across a border. (I flew across one!)

I knew it!!!

[nolla]

Originally Posted by IlyaK1986

Nolla, the idea of "citizens of the world" or "world nation" will not apply, because government leaders are elected to do what's best for the people within their own borders. Thus, if our standard of living is higher than the average person's in the world (AND IT IS!), then it would be TERRIBLE for the US to engage in US style democracy on a world scale. Doing that would put so much power into the hands of China and India that it would be a disaster!

So the problem would come down to U.S. (and the western world) having to admit that they have too high standard of living compared to other countries and their people, and this would take some away from the western world in the long run... That comes very close to what I call fair.

Originally Posted by IlyaK1986

As for mainstream vs. extremist--I don't buy it. I have very much difficulty believing after seeing so many people dancing in the streets on 9/11 or after the release of Samir Kuntar or other disasters like that, that everyone is a jolly good fellow except for the governments and anyone in power, who maintains that power despite every single person within those borders despising them.

They get a whole different perspective (through their media) on western world than we do. I can understand how it might seem like U.S. is a big boogey man across the ocean. I am sure that if you take the average muslim and place him in some western country, he will see a whole different perspective to the world dynamics.

[IlyaK1986]

Originally Posted by CaptainChick

I knew it!!!

Well of course you did.

Now if America and Russia were attached to the same above-water landmass, THEN we'd have an issue!

(Though I'm sure we'd find a peaceful way to solve it, such as with some nice hockey games =])

[IlyaK1986]

Originally Posted by nolla

So the problem would come down to U.S. (and the western world) having to admit that they have too high standard of living compared to other countries and their people, and this would take some away from the western world in the long run... That comes very close to what I call fair.



They get a whole different perspective (through their media) on western world than we do. I can understand how it might seem like U.S. is a big boogey man across the ocean. I am sure that if you take the average muslim and place him in some western country, he will see a whole different perspective to the world dynamics.

Our higher standard of living is a PROBLEM? I'm sorry but we weren't handed this standard of living from out of the sky. We worked for it, kicked around some Indians for it, industrial revolutionized for it, and did a hell of a lot of other things that the rest of the world can't, or won't do.

Not. Our. Problem.

We are not responsible for the rest of the world. No country is. Which is why I hate the fact that the US is wasting its resources trying to play world policeman. It should stick to its allies (Israel and Japan), and if it needs to get involved in foreign affairs, it does so with kind diplomacy--backed by threat of annihilating force. It's as Teddy Roosevelt said.

Speak softly.

But carry a BIG STICK.

[SillySapienne]

Originally Posted by IlyaK1986

Our higher standard of living is a PROBLEM? I'm sorry but we weren't handed this standard of living from out of the sky. We worked for it, kicked around some Indians for it, industrial revolutionized for it, and did a hell of a lot of other things that the rest of the world can't, or won't do..

We?!?!?!?!?

[Lucifer]

Originally Posted by IlyaK1986

(Though I'm sure we'd find a peaceful way to solve it, such as with some nice hockey games =])

I like hockey.

[nolla]

Originally Posted by IlyaK1986

Our higher standard of living is a PROBLEM? I'm sorry but we weren't handed this standard of living from out of the sky. We worked for it, kicked around some Indians for it, industrial revolutionized for it, and did a hell of a lot of other things that the rest of the world can't, or won't do.

Not. Our. Problem.

Well, say it this way... I was given high standard of living, I have all kinds of opportunities to become whatever I want. This was made possible by work of other people before me that made my country rise above some countries. When I follow the resources needed to do this, I see that without unfair treatment of other countries this would not have been possible. There are countries that are in a bad shape now because their chances for better have been stolen by irresponsible use of capitalism.

And, I might add that the world is polluted and dying. So it could be fair for me to try to give something back.

Originally Posted by IlyaK1986

We are not responsible for the rest of the world. No country is. Which is why I hate the fact that the US is wasting its resources trying to play world policeman. It should stick to its allies (Israel and Japan), and if it needs to get involved in foreign affairs, it does so with kind diplomacy--backed by threat of annihilating force.

Ok, I agree with this more than I agree with US policy at the moment.

But you know, this conversation is doomed to fail, because a nihilist talking to a humanist can never really lead to anything... (Except maybe marriage. Are you female?)