Was congress threatened with "martial law"?

[Risen]

Congressman speaks out about the fear tactics being used against them.

YouTube - Rep. Brad Sherman Martial Law

Apparently so. All the fearmongering and and pressure from the president, the treasury, the banks, and all the people responsible for this mess seems to have been the driving force behind the passing of the bailout bill; despite THOUSANDS of calls to the white house from the public inanimously against the bill. Despite HUNDREDS of the best economists and scholars telling them directly that this bill is a horrible horrible move. Despite the resistance of a great number of the politicians themselves. Every American should be outraged by what is going on right now.

[Jack Flak]

I'm pretty bent out of shape about it...Well I would be, if that were my tendency.

[YourLocalJesus]

The world need that bill to pass, or your greedy little investment boys on wall street will have fucked up the entire world economy. It is bad that this is needed, but this situation will escalate, and do it badly, if there is no intervention.

[Risen]

Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus

The world need that bill to pass, or your greedy little investment boys on wall street will have fucked up the entire world economy. It is bad that this is needed, but this situation will escalate, and do it badly, if there is no intervention.

I think Some people around the world need to get their heads out their bums and realize its about way more than some sort of "big greedy capitalist U.S." image they have in their minds. It's about a group of greedy bastards who have JUST fooled everyone into giving them more power and ability to manipulate the U.S. and world economy.

My friend, all evidence would indicate they don't give a damn about the U.S., and they don't give a damn about you or whatever country you live in. If they stand to benefit from taking down the U.S., then that is what they will do, and they will take down every country with us that depends on us as customers or whatever. All indication is that it'll go down something like that. You're darn right it's a global economy, and that we're all effected by this. So you too have the responsibility to stand back and take a broader perspective of what's going on here, and point your finger at the right target. Otherwise we'll just be bickering amongst eachother in the backseat while the car is being driven by these banks/people controling them into a proverbial hell. Better to be point at the people in the driver's seat is it not?

In the end, what is being conspired here with this bill will be a detriment to everyone, not just us in the U.S.

[Modern Nomad]

the economy is gonna be in recession anyways.

payroll numbers that came out today by the Department of Labor Statistics, show there was 159,000 job losses in September.

Thats the most in 5 years.

Depression or recession. Hey, its a good time to go back to school. Thats what im doing.

[IlyaK1986]

Waah waah waah...

Public shmublic. Most of the public is comprised of idiots and imbeciles that can't even grasp the concept of present value.

Do you have the merit to decide what is best for 300 million people? Have you ever led one of the greatest companies of nearly 30000 people to amazing profits and have any evidence whatsoever that you know what the hell you're talking about?

Because Hank Paulson does, and you don't.

So shut the fuck up you little ignorant dipshit.

Gotta love democracy and how something can get voted down if enough idiots oppose the few intelligent people that actually know what they're doing.

If you don't know what the hell you're talking about, then...

DON'T TALK.

It's that simple.

I'll put it in layman's terms for all of the morons on these forums that never took a finance course:

1) Most companies do not run on their own money. Most companies are comprised of
A) Equity--aka what you don't have to pay back--what money was paid to have ownership stake in your company. These people are entitled to their fair share of profits if your company does well, but at the same time, you can sell stake in your company rather than have to pay money back.
B) Debt--aka money you DO have to pay back. The act of borrowing money using the equity in the company as collateral is called LEVERAGING. Most companies in the financial services industry borrow a LOT more than they issue to shareholders.

2) Banks are mandated to hold some money in reserves so that depositors that want to withdraw money can. The rest they lend out. Banks can borrow money from the fed at a lower interest rate than they lend, and the difference is their profit. So if you deposit $10 at the bank, and they only have to keep a reserve of 10%, they can borrow $90 extra dollars to lend.

3) Most other companies in America issue debt in order to make their company look strong to shareholders. If the shareholder gets more of a return for his or her investment, the company will appear stronger, get its credit ratings upgraded, and be able to borrow for less, and it goes upwards in a virtuous cycle.

4) This is the way business works in America. You borrow money to make more money than you have to pay back. In other words, money+effort=more money.

5) The most profitable corporations constantly borrow very short term so they can make the most efficient use of their resources.

6) If those flows of funds stop, entire businesses seize up.

7) If businesses seize up, people are laid off, and flood into the job market. Because of a larger supply of employees, employers can hire more cheaply. This causes pay cuts, which causes less consumer spending, which decreases profit for the producing companies, which lay employees off to cut costs, who spend less, and down and down we go in a vicious cycle.

Here's the thing--trickle down economics may or may not work in good times since the rich spend some of that on things rich people spend money on. Mansions, private jets, yachts, etc...

However--trickle down economics in bad times doesn't trickle down. It RUSHES down. The first people screwed when the guys at the top get screwed aren't the rich Wall Street plutocrats. By not bailing out Wall Street, you would have done NOTHING to those big rich guys, because guess what:

They STILL would get their severance packages and their golden parachutes. They'd STILL keep their fat paychecks that they collected over the years. Sure, they might lose a bunch of stock options, but you think they'd actually get hurt other than a bruised ego?

DREAM ON! The first people that pay the price for a company's fall are

A) anyone indicted on charges. And you can't get indicted for having your firm go bankrupt and putting a bunch of employees out of work. Otherwise nobody would ever start a company. You can't get punished for stupidity. Only for criminal activity. Sure, it's tempting to try and indict someone, but unless they cooked books, you don't have shit on them.

B) The little guys. You and me. The employees who relied on the firm for a paycheck to fund their kids' college educations, to receive insurance coverage, and all of that good stuff--they're suddenly out fending for themselves.

The rich are by FAR AND AWAY better off NO MATTER the situation. Did their firm suddenly go bust? Oh, through their HUGE web of networks, they'll find another fat paying position at some other firm (Stan O'Neal just found another position at some private equity firm or hedge fund or whatever I believe), and just pick themselves and dust themselves off. It's not their kids that are suddenly going to be unable to go to college. It's a bunch of employees. Oh well. Too bad. So sad. Wish it didn't happen. See ya.

Also, what is all of this hatred against the rich? Oh, those thieving Wall Street corrupt plutocrats. They're fooling everyone for their own gain! They're robbing us blind! They're being stupid and we have to pay the bills for their stupidity!

Yeah, I'm not too thrilled about that. But guess what? Something the presidential candidates won't tell you is that all of the idiots getting their houses foreclosed on are every bit a part of this problem is the greedy Wall Streeters. All of those who committed to opportunistic borrowing on artificially low interest rates to buy ridiculously expensive houses that they could only keep if prices kept going up at their unsustainable rates are also every bit to blame. And just about anyone that took part in any way, shape, or form in the real-estate/credit bubble that just went boom is every bit to blame as Jimmy Cayne and Stan O'Neal and Dick Fuld.

No, it's "those greedy rich thieves" that take advantage of the poor people.

Guess what?

THAT'S CAPITALISM FOR YOU. Welcome to America. Eat or be eaten. Know what the entire point of MARKETING is?

To take advantage of those that don't know better. To rob the stupid blind. In fact, I'll do the "thieves" of Wall Street one better.

It is morally wrong to allow idiots to keep their money.

Those that are well-informed don't need commercials and advertisements to tell them anything. They know the right people, have the right connections, and go from point A to point B with their own resources to make the decisions that leave them better off.

It's the idiots living down the street from you with big dreams but just running that same rat race believing every get-rich-quick scheme they hear that make all of these industries of "thievery" so profitable!

If you're relying on your 401(k) as your standalone retirement income, you're one of those idiots. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, you're probably one of those idiots. If you're 9 to 5ing just to "live comfortably", you're one of those idiots. If you watch Suze Orman and buy all of these personal finance books to try and feel better about yourself, you're an idiot. Don't be too ashamed though--most people are!

Welcome to the duality of capitalism, people. Yes, this IS the land of opportunity. But it's just that--opportunity. Not entitlement. The government can't save you from being stupid. The Wall Streeters know that, the fat CEOs know that, nor the high-ranking managers, or even anyone just starting at the bottom of the ladder as an entry-level drone at any which big bank.

In return for giving YOU the OPPORTUNITY to get rich, the government also lets every OTHER you (every other you being every other person) do THEIR best to get rich.

And no matter how many laws are passed, people will ALWAYS find ways of skirting regulations, finding loopholes, hiding revenues or offshoring their accounts.

No amount of laws or regulations will prevent the booms and busts of our economy without destroying capitalism--which is a beautiful system. It allows someone to come from nothing to being worth billions. The only way to leave yourself better off is to know what the hell you're doing, and to stop bitching.

The end.

[IlyaK1986]

Originally Posted by Modern Nomad

the economy is gonna be in recession anyways.

payroll numbers that came out today by the Department of Labor Statistics, show there was 159,000 job losses in September.

Thats the most in 5 years.

Depression or recession. Hey, its a good time to go back to school. Thats what im doing.

Because obviously there won't be another economic bust then!

[pure_mercury]

I am totally against this bill, but come on. Sherman is feeding people a line here. Also, I would hope that most people would know enough not to trust one of the most left-wing members of Congress when it comes to economic matters.

[Lateralus]

IlyaK1986, you need to work on your delivery. It sucks ass.

[Modern Nomad]

Originally Posted by pure_mercury

I am totally against this bill, but come on. Sherman is feeding people a line here. Also, I would hope that most people would know enough not to trust one of the most left-wing members of Congress when it comes to economic matters.

the market dropped like 400 points after the bill was passed.

Not passing it would be pretty anti business. All businesses depend on credit to some degree.