Racism (split from "I'm voting Republican" thread.)

[wildcat]

Originally Posted by pure_mercury

It's an interesting distinction to make, but racism doesn't have to assign negative connotations, does it?

Also, on the other hand, what about a black voter who voted for Obama because Hillary Clinton is white, as opposed to Obama being black? Would that be racist?

An African American person who votes for Obama is not a racist.
African Americans are a suppressed minority.
Minority and majority are not the same thing. Never equate them.
Never say racism is not xenophobic hatred and impulse to oppress.

Try to be generous.
Yes, I know. Butterflies in the stomach.
Be brave this one time.

[Peguy]

Originally Posted by wildcat

An African American person who votes for Obama is not a racist.

That can easily be disputed on many levels. Many Blacks are voting for Obama simply because he is "Black"(actually mulatto, but claims he's Black).

I have my doubts whether or not Obama, who comes from an affluent background, has any real connections to the wider Black community.

African Americans are a suppressed minority.

In what way exactly? A good article taking on this notion is RealClearPolitics - Articles - The End of 'Black America'

One excerpt:

"What do Fox News polemicist Bill O'Reilly, nappy-headed radio jock Don Imus, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, the leading Republican presidential candidates, the National Urban League, the NAACP and much of the national media have in common?

They don't see, or don't want to admit, that "black America" is an increasingly meaningless concept -- nearly as imprecise as just plain "America."

Why is O'Reilly under siege? Because he was shocked to learn that there exists in this country an upscale black-owned restaurant with an affluent African-American clientele. Four or five decades ago, you could reasonably generalize that "black America" was poor. Today, African-Americans control nearly $800 billion in annual purchasing power -- enough to dine occasionally at restaurants that have tablecloths.

Why did Imus get fired by CBS and NBC? Because now there are senior black professionals in both of those companies with the clout to march into top executives' offices and argue that Imus had to go. Also because Al Roker, an African-American who happens to be one of the stars of "Today" -- often described as the most profitable show in all of television -- called publicly for Imus' head, or at least his cowboy hat.

Why does Thomas, in his pugnacious autobiography, insist that he's being persecuted for holding views that are somehow off-limits to black Americans? Apparently, it would destroy his sense of his own exceptionalism to acknowledge the many African-Americans who share his conservative social views and his ethic of personal responsibility and self-help. (He's right, though, that on the subject of affirmative action, most black Americans do think he's nuts.)...

....The problem is that we all say we want an "honest dialogue" about race, but we've been having the same old arguments for years -- affirmative action, inner-city dysfunction, overt and covert racism -- and we seem to be stuck. We need a new language, a new vocabulary and syntax.

Let's start by opening our eyes and recognizing that if there ever was a monolithic "black America" -- absolutely and uniformly deprived and aggrieved, with invariant values and attitudes -- there certainly isn't one now.

So claiming that Blacks as a whole are some oppressed minority is rather absurd.

Never say racism is not xenophobic hatred and impulse to oppress.

Racism is the indiscriminate hatred of others simply because of their race. A majority and a minority can engage in such. I see plenty of that in my area.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

I'd just like to say that I find the term "mulatto" very offensive, along with "octoroon" and "quadroon"... this is the legacy of 'white' slaveowners and colonialists characterizing Africans as breeds, which we don't do with people from other backgrounds.

Also, Peguy, don't you know that having even 1/32nd of 'black' heritage makes you black!!?!?!?!?!?
<inflect last sentence for sarcasm>

[Peguy]

mulatto is a legitimate term.

[wildcat]

Originally Posted by Peguy

That can easily be disputed on many levels. Many Blacks are voting for Obama simply because he is "Black"(actually mulatto, but claims he's Black).

I have my doubts whether or not Obama, who comes from an affluent background, has any real connections to the wider Black community.




In what way exactly? A good article taking on this notion is RealClearPolitics - Articles - The End of 'Black America'

One excerpt:



So claiming that Blacks as a whole are some oppressed minority is rather absurd.




Racism is the indiscriminate hatred of others simply because of their race. A majority and a minority can engage in such. I see plenty of that in my area.

Yes.
Did you read?
No.
I repeat then.
An African American person who votes for Obama is not a racist.
Why?
I repeat.
Minority is not a majority.
Do you read me now?

What does it take to read?

You are partially right about Obama.
He is not an African American by race.
He is a European American by culture.
Therefore he will win.

It makes me sad.
I am sure it makes Obama sad, too.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Originally Posted by Peguy

mulatto is a legitimate term.

Legitimate? What's your standard for legitimacy?

You do know that the term 'mulatto' derives from the Spanish for 'mule', right? And mules are generally infertile progeny of horses and donkeys?

The U.S. census officially stopped using the term 'mulatto' back before the Civil Rights movement...

Whatever... I'm sure you'll justify it by referring to how many people use it... I don't think it makes it kosher...

Beyond all this... why do we have such a word for half-black/half-whites and not for other racial mixtures? Doesn't this make you wonder about the origin of the word? I should move this post to the "N"-word thread... it would make more sense there... I'll leave that to an admin.

[pure_mercury]

Originally Posted by wildcat

An African American person who votes for Obama is not a racist.
African Americans are a suppressed minority.
Minority and majority are not the same thing. Never equate them.
Never say racism is not xenophobic hatred and impulse to oppress.

Try to be generous.
Yes, I know. Butterflies in the stomach.
Be brave this one time.

You're wrong on the racism issue. I made a clear distinction between "racism" and "bigotry" and no one could contradict that satisfactorily. I also happen to have dictionary definitions on my side here, as you can see. Furthermore, if you honestly believe that different races should have completely different standards of appropriate behavior, then you dehumanize both the majority and the minority.

As to my question before, it is obvious that a black person who votes for Obama is not a racist BY DEFINITION. However, voting for a black person SIMPLY for being black, is, by definition, racist thinking. You can't argue around that.

And can't racism be the assigning of positive characteristics to your own race? Of course, it can.

[Wolf]

wildcat: I always liked you, but you have let me down for the first time...

Originally Posted by wildcat

An African American person who votes for Obama is not a racist.

They're acting in a racist manner if their reason is the same as the skinhead's for voting for the national socialism candidate. This seems to be a clearly-established trend.

Minority is not a majority.

I'm a minority in nearly every possible sense, but it doesn't mean I vote based on the race of the candidates.

[Oberon]

I'm not really clear on this whole "suppressed minority" bit. We've got a black candidate for president who has a real shot at winning this fall. One of the richest and most visible people in America, Oprah Winfrey, is a black woman and a self-made publisher and media mogul. In my work environment, African-Americans are represented at every level of employment including upper management (and I'm in North Carolina).

I cannot tell you the last time I witnessed an expression of overt racism from a white person toward a black person, but it's been decades.

Based on my experience, I judge that African-Americans have the same degree of opportunity for achievement as anyone else in the circles in which I have moved. If there is oppression or suppression, it must be very subtle.

[pure_mercury]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I cannot tell you the last time I witnessed an expression of overt racism from a white person toward a black person, but it's been decades.

That's a great development, but I would be looking more at the way white people talk about black people when they aren't there, if I were to make a judgment about "racist or not." And, we must remember, the flying of a Confederate flag or talking positively (or even dispassionately) about the South during the Civil War can be seen as "overt racism" by some.