Why I'm not voting for McCain

nightwatcher · 06-05-2008, 07:49 PM

If not for the (religious) right wing dominance in the Republican party, the moderates might have a better case for McCain. The right wingers, on the other hand, have a clear choice, even if they have to “settle” for McCain. I agree with people who say that a McCain victory is more or less a 3rd Bush term, because he has to follow a right wing course to stay in power, even if it’s a watered down one. How did he put it? He’ll chase Bin-Ladin to the ends of the earth? I wonder if he’s going to do that himself, or will he delegate the mission? In any case, that kind of rhetoric should be a clear indication that he has a large right wing faction to pander to if he wants to win the White House and keep it. And among other things, a victory for him will mean packing the Supreme and federal courts with more right wing judges when openings arise for at least another 4 years. He has to give the right at least that much.

Looking to the global theatre, is there any doubt that McCain is more likely to get us into another Iraq than Obama is? People who thought there was no substantial difference between Al Gore and W. learned the hard way that indeed there was. And the Iraq invasion is the most obvious example, since there is NO WAY Al Gore would have done that. For those who favor Iraq II because they believe this strategy has made the world a safer and better place, that the thousands of dead, limbless and Post Traumatic Stress inflicted soldiers were sacrificed over there for a very good reason, McCain’s election seems the best hope for more of the same.

As for McCain’s highly-touted experience, how reliable an indication is that in predicting a new president’s foreign policy? Have Bush’s 8 years of experience made him any wiser and set us on a better course?

Another consideration is McCain’s age. If he doesn’t live out his one or two terms, he’ll be replaced by whatever right wing VP he chose as his running mate to get as much of the Christain Right out as he could on voting day in addition to his own moderate supporters. From this angle, too, it looks like a clear choice. Right wing/evangelical: McCain. Non-right wing: Obama.

It seems that a lot of people argue about who they “like” as if having the guy they “like” in the White House is what really matters. But I’m not voting for Obama because I like his crowd-pleasing, charismatic ENFJ personality. It’s important to look beyond the individual candidates to the bigger picture, at what kind of agenda is going to be implemented by the winning party, a progressive or a regressive one.

A Democratic victory means an overall saner policy than the victory of a party with a right wing core dominated by religious fanatics bent on moving the country closer to a theocracy. You’d think that would scare away the libertarians who think voting GOP means greater individual freedom. These are the kind of people who would ban birth control, and as I recall reading a few years ago, the Missouri GOP actually did ban it in state-funded clinics. That’s their version of “small government”: policing our sex lives. And the kind of judges McCain will appoint are ones much more likely to uphold this kind of Taliban-imitation policy whenever it’s challenged in the courts.

pure_mercury · 06-05-2008, 08:28 PM

I'm a libertarian, and I don't like McCain at all, save for being comparatively good on free trade and immigration. Also, having a Republican POTUS and Democratic House (or, even better, vice versa, a la second Bill Clinton term) can be good for gridlock. That being said, Obama doesn't exactly strike me as the best "individual freedom" candidate in the world. Not as bad as Hillary or Huckabee, but not what I want to see in the White House, either.

Wrathful_Buddha · 06-05-2008, 09:01 PM

I'm a libertarian, so I'll probably just sit at home on election night and play video games or something. Yes, I decided to stick my head in the sand and not care anymore.

However, if I HAD to vote, I would vote for McCain. I would vote for him because I think a grid lock between president and congress is desirable. A gridlocked government can not move ahead, and can not grow. Leviathan's development would be arrested.

EffEmDoubleyou · 06-06-2008, 01:13 PM

I agree with most of what Nightwatcher said. I was a big fan of the 2001 version of John McCain, but the 2008 version has been assimilated by the right-wing Borg. It may be unsavory, but one of the main reasons I'll vote for Obama is because McCain is old and Huckabee (presuming he is the running mate) in the White House scares the hell out of me.

Jennifer · 06-06-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou

I agree with most of what Nightwatcher said. I was a big fan of the 2001 version of John McCain, but the 2008 version has been assimilated by the right-wing Borg...

I wouldn't go that far... but I was very much all McCain in 2000, compared to my other options... and now I'm sort of ... meh.

I still wonder what might have happened if Bush's cronies hadn't drug tons of mud through the Carolinas that year, smothering McCain and managing to snag Dubya the nom.

Beat · 06-06-2008, 06:59 PM

I'll just watch the country fall to it's knees and claim innocence by not voting.

We're fucked.

Jennifer · 06-06-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn

I'll just watch the country fall to it's knees and claim innocence by not voting. We're fucked.

Oh, that's what they said in 1892.

And before.

Sorry, bub, looks like death would be too kind for us, you're gonna have to keep suffering.

Kiddo · 06-06-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn

I'll just watch the country fall to it's knees and claim innocence by not voting.

We're fucked.

How could we possibly be fucked? The Republicans ran the country for over six years. They controlled all the branches of government. They have done such a remarkable job and now McCain is offering more of the same.

Beat · 06-06-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiddo

How could we possibly be fucked? The Republicans ran the country for over six years. They controlled all the branches of government. They have done such a remarkable job and now McCain is offering more of the same.

I didn't say the penis wasn't in our ass the past six years, did I?

Kiddo · 06-06-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn

I didn't say the penis wasn't in our ass the past six years, did I?

Nah. I was just using your post as an excuse to practice my condescension for McCain supporters.

I humbly apologize if you took any offense.

06-05-2008, 07:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
nightwatcher Member Join Date: May 2008 Type: INXJ Location: The Kefahuchi Tract Posts: 84	Why I'm not voting for McCain If not for the (religious) right wing dominance in the Republican party, the moderates might have a better case for McCain. The right wingers, on the other hand, have a clear choice, even if they have to “settle” for McCain. I agree with people who say that a McCain victory is more or less a 3rd Bush term, because he has to follow a right wing course to stay in power, even if it’s a watered down one. How did he put it? He’ll chase Bin-Ladin to the ends of the earth? I wonder if he’s going to do that himself, or will he delegate the mission? In any case, that kind of rhetoric should be a clear indication that he has a large right wing faction to pander to if he wants to win the White House and keep it. And among other things, a victory for him will mean packing the Supreme and federal courts with more right wing judges when openings arise for at least another 4 years. He has to give the right at least that much. Looking to the global theatre, is there any doubt that McCain is more likely to get us into another Iraq than Obama is? People who thought there was no substantial difference between Al Gore and W. learned the hard way that indeed there was. And the Iraq invasion is the most obvious example, since there is NO WAY Al Gore would have done that. For those who favor Iraq II because they believe this strategy has made the world a safer and better place, that the thousands of dead, limbless and Post Traumatic Stress inflicted soldiers were sacrificed over there for a very good reason, McCain’s election seems the best hope for more of the same. As for McCain’s highly-touted experience, how reliable an indication is that in predicting a new president’s foreign policy? Have Bush’s 8 years of experience made him any wiser and set us on a better course? Another consideration is McCain’s age. If he doesn’t live out his one or two terms, he’ll be replaced by whatever right wing VP he chose as his running mate to get as much of the Christain Right out as he could on voting day in addition to his own moderate supporters. From this angle, too, it looks like a clear choice. Right wing/evangelical: McCain. Non-right wing: Obama. It seems that a lot of people argue about who they “like” as if having the guy they “like” in the White House is what really matters. But I’m not voting for Obama because I like his crowd-pleasing, charismatic ENFJ personality. It’s important to look beyond the individual candidates to the bigger picture, at what kind of agenda is going to be implemented by the winning party, a progressive or a regressive one. A Democratic victory means an overall saner policy than the victory of a party with a right wing core dominated by religious fanatics bent on moving the country closer to a theocracy. You’d think that would scare away the libertarians who think voting GOP means greater individual freedom. These are the kind of people who would ban birth control, and as I recall reading a few years ago, the Missouri GOP actually did ban it in state-funded clinics. That’s their version of “small government”: policing our sex lives. And the kind of judges McCain will appoint are ones much more likely to uphold this kind of Taliban-imitation policy whenever it’s challenged in the courts. __________________ "Space was big, and the boys from Earth were awed despite themselves by the things they found there: but worse, their science was in a mess. Every race they met on their way through the Core had a star drive based on a different theory. All those theories worked, even when they ruled out one another’s basic assumptions. You could travel between the stars, it began to seem, by assuming anything.” —M. John Harrison, “Light”

06-05-2008, 08:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
pure_mercury Order Now! Join Date: Feb 2008 Type: ESFJ Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,598	I'm a libertarian, and I don't like McCain at all, save for being comparatively good on free trade and immigration. Also, having a Republican POTUS and Democratic House (or, even better, vice versa, a la second Bill Clinton term) can be good for gridlock. That being said, Obama doesn't exactly strike me as the best "individual freedom" candidate in the world. Not as bad as Hillary or Huckabee, but not what I want to see in the White House, either. __________________ Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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06-05-2008, 09:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
Wrathful_Buddha Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Type: INTJ Location: Illannoy Posts: 6	I'm a libertarian, so I'll probably just sit at home on election night and play video games or something. Yes, I decided to stick my head in the sand and not care anymore. However, if I HAD to vote, I would vote for McCain. I would vote for him because I think a grid lock between president and congress is desirable. A gridlocked government can not move ahead, and can not grow. Leviathan's development would be arrested.

06-06-2008, 06:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
Beat ...lost Join Date: Oct 2007 Type: ISTj Location: Yonder Posts: 4,808	I'll just watch the country fall to it's knees and claim innocence by not voting. We're fucked.