Feminism

[Magic Poriferan]

Are we going to open the whole can of worms, trying to go back an find every word that might have a possibly biased connotation which is allegedly poisoning our minds?

[Metamorphosis]

Originally Posted by Kiddo

That is an interesting expectation to have. Do you suppose that is alway true, no matter what community you live in?

I suppose it is true in most communities. But I'm obviously just guessing. But if it isn't, I still really don't care.

Originally Posted by Kiddo

The drawback of that thinking is that it sets the precedent that it is a "male only" profession.

So? When most people hear "secretary" they think of a female but that isn't always the case.

Originally Posted by Kiddo

Oh no! A whole nother syllable.

My point was that I'm not going to change my speaking patterns so that I can make feminists feel better about themselves. They are capable of using logic. And yes, I am well aware of the power of langauge when it comes to mental manipulation. As long as people know that all mailmen are not male, then it doesn't matter how they initially associate it in their brain.

[Kiddo]

Meh, so as not to drag this thread into an argument I think I will agree to disagree with you on this one Meta. I will, however, say that your thinking is quite conservative. People are asked to change their language and way of thinking not just for feminists, but for the benefit of all women and by extension, all of society. Your expectations only prove the power of cognitive impressions.

[SillySapienne]

Sexual dimorphism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Women/females vs. men/males, yes there is in fact a difference.

But in sexually reproducing species, it all comes down to this.





[image deleted]

[Magic Poriferan]

Originally Posted by Kiddo

Your expectations only prove the power of cognitive impressions.

The sounds like a convenient way out.

[zarc]

Originally Posted by CaptainChick

Thanks for the semen!!!!

Create enough sperm banks and there is no longer need for men. Or we females can all do as the Herlanders do with asexual reproduction!

Originally Posted by GZA

At what point do you guys think feminism stops being about feminism and starts just being a basic sense of justice. Obviously, all feminism is about justice, but at some point it would get to the point where it was just a specific injustice (i.e. sexual harrasment is a crime, should it be thought of as a crime against women or just as a crime in general?).

Sexual harrrassment can be done by women too. What makes you think it's specific to women? That's a misconception b/c it's not talked about it much. It's only known more for women as it might just occur more against them + reported more by them and it's also likely that men who suffer from sexual harassment (from women OR even from men) do not report it. Could be due to any number of reasons, shame from "not being a man" or something else entirely. Just as it's the misconception that only "women are pressured to look good/thin" and men are not.

What I'm really wondering is if you think that eventually considering things feminism or whatever divides things rather than bringing them together.

Not all feminism is the same, as ygolo pointed out earlier. During the feminist movement in North America, it was the movement of the middle class Caucasian females speaking of the rights of "all" females but not regarding that of other ethnicities or classes. Even amongst those former females, not all agreed on the same vision. Should women all leave the home? Some think it's the only way to ensure respect for womenkind. Some believe it's up to the woman's choice if she wants to work. Even still, with all the differing feminist views, while some are similar there are still lots of differences. I'd think basic 'equality' rights are the same for all such as being treated with respect and having equal pay to the men with their exact professional positions.

Another example is violence against women -why not just stop violence against everyone, including women? Just an example.

There is more collective violence against women, especially in countries w/o basic freedom rights. There IS violence against men from women. They should be treated the same under the laws of your country.

[zarc]

Originally Posted by Metamorphosis

My thoughts on feminism:

It entirely depends on how far they go. Should females be able to get jobs? Yes. But don't simultaneously say that you can't hit them, and they should have the opportunity to be infantry.

I've always thought it silly when people say a women can hit a man but he can't hit her back. If she initates wrongly, it's her fault for doing so. It's hypocritcal to me. Unless, of course, she's in an abusive relationship and she's reacting due to stress/fear-- Or of course, SHE can be the abuser in the relationship (I've seen it in RL and it's not funny at all...k...just a bit )

My biggest problem with feminism is that many feminists don't want to make men and women equal...they want to make them the same.

Not entirely true as some feminist branches have differing views on that. Some stress the value of both sexes equating to their own biological and physiological design. Some argue that due to hundreds of thousands of years imposing restrictions on women (i.e hunting vs gathering) designed specific traits needed for survival which became ingrained in the subconscious of women and men. Some believe that this can be changed if allowed to develop. Just as men can change as well (i.e Metrosexuals). It's breaking down barriors on preconcieved notions on sex/uality and our roles as male and female. We know that in other mammals there are females which are the hunters (i.e Tigers) and some males which are the nurturers (i.e Seahorses who also become pregnant with the female egg). I'm not saying males are gonna be able to make babies in a hundred years!

Men are not women. Don't tell me that men and women should be treated the exact same in all circumstances, because that is bull shit. Saying that women should be treated exactly like men not only makes men appear greater than they are.

You say all that but you don't mention how they should be treated. I'm curious now!

It also downplays female strengths. It's wrong if a woman can't get a job? Yes. Is it wrong if a woman chooses to stay at home and be a mom? No. Women have strengths that men do not have and men have strengths that women do not have.

In saying that then, which I agree, would you say men can stay home and raise the kids as well if he so chooses to?

Plus, it's a pain in the ass. "men" is far more easy to say than "person"

You're so silly. Maybe that's why I like reducing you into Morphy instead of that longer name you have!

[Zergling]

Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan

If some woman wants to try and design a competitive missile that's shaped like a vagina, all my luck goes to her.
I don't know how many feminists actually subscribe to these kinds of ideas, but I hope it's very few.

There is such a device, actually, it is called a "jet engine intake". the entire jet engine is in a represents the female reproductive system, it has an intake for a clear to white fluid air (semen) that is transferred through some compressors and other equipment, (cervix), to a central chamber where the incoming air composed of many small molecules, interacts with fuel composed of larger molecules (sperm meeting eggs) that come through the fuel tubes (fallopian tubes), from storage tanks (ovaries). This ineraction causes a chemical reaction produces energy (similar to how the spark of human life begins in the baby), that must be carefull controlled and directed outwards to provide power to the plane (similar to how the baby must be taken care of and grown carefully before leaving the mother's body to start its life journey.)

Next up, how the development of viscous flow theory represents man's primal desire the overcome castration anxiety.

My biggest problem with feminism is that many feminists don't want to make men and women equal...they want to make them the same. Men are not women. Don't tell me that men and women should be treated the exact same in all circumstances, because that is bull shit. Saying that women should be treated exactly like men not only makes men appear greater than they are. It also downplays female strengths. It's wrong if a woman can't get a job? Yes. Is it wrong if a woman chooses to stay at home and be a mom? No. Women have strengths that men do not have and men have strengths that women do not have.

A lot of female inequality seems to come from people's different expectations causing people involved to make decisions that work out either against females/males in general, or against individual people who have some sort of differing quality, but still end up expected to "act their gender". Treating females and males the same, while getting rid of a lot of gender expectations, gives people a better chance to sort themselves out on other qualities. (For example, it may be that females in general will be more likely to be stay at home parents, but the expectations of how genders work out will make it harder for particular males, who may be suited to do stay at home parenting, less likely to make that choice.)

[Kiddo]

Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan

The sounds like a convenient way out.

Would you prefer I argue about it relentlessly with you and Meta, when we all know that neither you guys nor I are inclined to change our way of thinking. That my friend, would be stupid and pointless when it comes to any discussion.

Feminism is about change meant to close the gender gap. The question you might want to ask yourself is why you are so resistant to such change when it comes to something so small as the choice of words you use?

[Magic Poriferan]

Originally Posted by Kiddo

Would you prefer I argue about it relentlessly with you and Meta, when we all know that neither you guys nor I are inclined to change our way of thinking. That my friend, would be stupid and pointless when it comes to any discussion.

Feminism is about change meant to close the gender gap. The question you might want to ask yourself is why you are so resistant to such change when it comes to something so small as the choice of words you use?

It wasn't that you agreed to disagree that bothered me. It was your last parthian shot of that post that bothered me.

It's actually not a small choice to attempt voluntarily altering language on a broad scale. If you look into the history of the subject, you'll find it's a herculean task.
And again, I state that I severely question the relevance of such a task.
To me, it probably doesn't influence much in the fight for feminism. It's almost a red-herring from REAL issues.