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  1. #461
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    Yeah this is about the most alarmist spin on those words I've ever seen spun. You folks are getting desperate. Kuranes said most of what I wanted to. The sad part is that even taken in the most alarmist way, it's still not as bad as the current administration boldly going where no man has gone before.

    Please tell me after all this ranting that you also ranted about Bush and his court-dodging wire-tapping? CIA taking people to Saudi where torture restrictions are relaxed?
    The current administration has done more toward un-doing fundamental American rights than any previous administration. Anyone with a brain should be able to step back and see what a slippery slope they have started down with things like the Patriot Act. These are scary, scary violations of privacy and human rights that are laid out in the PREAMBLE of the Constitution and later defined in the main body.

    People were scared after 9/11 and let the government do things that previous generations would have RIOTED AND REVOLTED over! Fear can make people do some crazy things and the current administration played on that to the fullest extent.

    Continuing down this road = YouTube - V for Vendetta Vs Speech

    How fitting, November the 5th.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  2. #462
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    This is why we have state governments, and propositions like prop 8 in California where citizens can vote on the issue that would further define marriage without a constitutional amendment. That is the constitutional process.
    I appreciate the idea of smaller government and giving states power (particularly for things like education and health care, though I still think that health care should be socialized at that level)--but when it comes to civil rights, I think that the federal government has the duty to step in and make sure that the majority does not deprive the minority of rights. Smaller governments are not good for ensuring fair and equitable treatment across the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Exactly. Say goodbye to Federalism, Balance of Powers, and restricting the capacity of government to deprive individuals of their rights...say hello to the Judicial Branch legislating from the bench.
    Irony alert, given so many things about the Republicans in the last eight years and Sarah Palin's interpretation of the VP's job.

    And it never fails that the group "out of power" complains about judges "legislating from the bench." I would think that appointed conservative judges were "legislating from the bench" by imposing their constitutional interpretations, too. That's the thing. As with the Bible, there is disagreement about how to read it. If you agree with the judge, they're "interpreting the Constitution." If you disagree, they're "legislating from the bench."
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. #463
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It really isn't. At this point, the prediction markets show Obama would win upwards of 90% of the time.

    It's not a close race, but pretending it is makes for good TV. The election was pretty much decided when McCain picked Palin.
    Nope. Kerry was up in the polls right before the 2004 election and everyone thought he was going to win. I remember. I also remember afterwards, they were stunned and came up with a ton of different lame excuses as to why he didnt win.

  4. #464
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    Nope. Kerry was up in the polls right before the 2004 election and everyone thought he was going to win. I remember. I also remember afterwards, they were stunned and came up with a ton of different lame excuses as to why he didnt win.
    I'll sum it up: he got pwned. Any politician who can let the opposition spin things like that and get away with it...well, let's just say, if a war veteran is made to look like a draft dodger, while a draft dodger is made to look like a war veteran, and he can't do a damn thing about it in the seemingly endless months it went on...screw him, I don't want a chump like that running my country anyway.

    Maybe we'd still have $700,000,000,000 in the bank if he'd won, but I do think a certain amount of strength is needed in the job.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  5. #465
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    Nope. Kerry was up in the polls right before the 2004 election and everyone thought he was going to win. I remember. I also remember afterwards, they were stunned and came up with a ton of different lame excuses as to why he didnt win.
    *shrug* I'd take any amount of money bet (well, up to the amount I could hedge ) that obama would win, at even odds. Actually, I'd take it a 1:2 odds too.

    Although I wasn't referring to the polls, they also currently show something entirely different too. Current estimates put obama winning by almost 100 electoral votes - virtually a landslide. I'm not that confident, knowing that the margins are too big to generalise (the deviation on that is huge)... but the trend is not close anymore. Even if it doesn't continue to grow, it's enough to be fairly certain.

    FWIW, Bush was ahead in the prediction markets for a lot of the election time in 2004.

    On the plus side, the current bets are at 85% that Obama will win. So, if you really have that much confidence in a close race, throw a lot of money at McCain. It will return a hell of a lot if he wins. I don't disagree with the odds enough to see it as profitable - but if you believe it is a close to even race, I'd be close to betting the farm.

  6. #466
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Lets do it, pt! Lets bet, you and I. It's on.

    I already bet Edahn once and clobbered him. Too bad there is no Bookie feature on here.

  7. #467
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Obama is going to win.

  8. #468
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    Lets do it, pt! Lets bet, you and I. It's on.

    I already bet Edahn once and clobbered him. Too bad there is no Bookie feature on here.
    Intrade Prediction Markets - for all your betting needs.

    My opinion is that Obama will win by between 70-100 electoral votes (I haven't done the math to optimize the range, based on the size of each state, but since this is just an informal ego-bet, that's my "central" 1 deviation gamble :P )

    I'll admit utter defeat if McCain wins (by any amount), and a relative defeat if Obama win by 0-30 electoral votes.

    Doesn't affect me anyway, heh, but it's fun to cast predictions!

  9. #469
    Oberon
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    Though I do not advocate an Obama presidency, one good result would certainly come of it: Black America will have arrived.

    A group is officially no longer an oppressed minority when one of their number is elected president.

  10. #470
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Obama is going to win.
    No, no, I'll fix that for you:



    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Though I do not advocate an Obama presidency, one good result would certainly come of it: Black America will have arrived.

    A group is officially no longer an oppressed minority when one of their number is elected president.
    I don't really think that's entirely true. There's a LOT to be said for Obama having to "pass" in a lot of respects. If he were more representative of black culture in America... I think things would have been different. One of Obama's interesting--and possibly manipulative, though I *am* an Obama advocate--qualities is that he chameleons well.

    IMO, there's still a lot of work to do towards race equality and equity in America.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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