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Thread: Is Obama Really Going to Win?

  1. #431
    Order Now! Array pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I skimmed the whole article to get a feel for tone.

    How much did you actually read? It sounds to me like you read, oh, the first few paragraphs, before you dismissed it? Most of the rest of the article seemed to deal directly with American culture itself, not just the "overseas money" issue. Your criticism deals with, oh, maybe 10% of the article -- but you represented it here in this thread as the entirety of his writing.
    I read through a good portion of it. He decried the level of violent crime in our country, and (of course) I won't argue about that. I pretty much turned off when he started talking about Europe vs. the United States. That was a long article by a boring man. He seems particularly obsessed with Sweden. I brought up the part that seemed most egregiously wrong to me.


    I didn't get the picture that he had an axe to grind; I got the idea that he's a Christian himself who is taking a pretty thoughtful stance on inconsistencies within the body of believers with which he identifies himself.

    I don't know if you came up within the church. I did. It seemed to ring pretty true, and it's not because I've got an axe to grind, it's simply one of the disparities within modern American faith that is a curiosity if you are outside the faith and a pain in the ass if you're INSIDE and getting kicked in the teeth by it if you ever dare to challenge status quo.

    You're entitled to your opinion. I went to Catholic school K-12 (K-8 at my local parochial school, 9-12 at a very expensive Catholic, all-boys, prep school). My family went to Mass on Sundays, but religion was not a very big deal. Certainly not talked about often. I was an altar boy for four years, mainly because you got money for weddings and funerals, you went to Clementon Park once a year, got out of school on occasion, and you might as well perform at Mass if you have to go anyway. I was a heretic at a young age (I NEVER bought into transubstantiation), and I considered myself an agnostic by high school.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #432
    Boring old fossil Array Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I was a heretic at a young age.
    I've always preferred the term, "infidel", myself.

  3. #433
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Array Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I read through a good portion of it. He decried the level of violent crime in our country, and (of course) I won't argue about that. I pretty much turned off when he started talking about Europe vs. the United States. That was a long article by a boring man. He seems particularly obsessed with Sweden. I brought up the part that seemed most egregiously wrong to me.
    All right, thank you for clarifying.

    I'm always fascinated about how background impacts how two people can read the same thing in different ways.

    You're entitled to your opinion. I went to Catholic school K-12 (K-8 at my local parochial school, 9-12 at a very expensive Catholic, all-boys, prep school). My family went to Mass on Sundays, but religion was not a very big deal. Certainly not talked about often. I was an altar boy for four years, mainly because you got money for weddings and funerals, you went to Clementon Park once a year, got out of school on occasion, and you might as well perform at Mass if you have to go anyway. I was a heretic at a young age (I NEVER bought into transubstantiation), and I considered myself an agnostic by high school.
    I never much went for transubstantiation either, it seemed sort of goofy and built off manipulation of the vocabulary of scripture.

    I'd definitely say that Catholic and evangelical upbringing is very different, though. *shrug*

    My father always bitched about the church, but he would still drop my sister and me off there. Meanwhile, my mom is quietly but devoutly religious. I struggled all my life between believing what made sense to me and trying to make work what the faith told me I 'needed to believe.'

    (When I finally openly made changes a year or two ago, my entire family took it very hard and even now I think they pray for my soul.)

    In any case, the subculture can be very stultifying. I'm still trying to work out which of my reactions are sensible and which are too much when I have to deal with people of strong beliefs. That's why I can get sort of touchy when evangelical faith issues get involved in politics. (That's my bias.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I've always preferred the term, "infidel", myself.
    I'd rather just call you "Beezly" for short.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #434
    Boring old fossil Array Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'd rather just call you "Beezly" for short.
    Haha.

    Actually, I'm highly religious (as you know).

    I owe this to my rejection of the church.

    The best way to find your spiritual "center" is to accept the possibility that God doesn't exist.

  5. #435
    Order Now! Array pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I never much went for transubstantiation either, it seemed sort of goofy and built off manipulation of the vocabulary of scripture.

    I'd definitely say that Catholic and evangelical upbringing is very different, though. *shrug*

    My father always bitched about the church, but he would still drop my sister and me off there. Meanwhile, my mom is quietly but devoutly religious. I struggled all my life between believing what made sense to me and trying to make work what the faith told me I 'needed to believe.'

    (When I finally openly made changes a year or two ago, my entire family took it very hard and even now I think they pray for my soul.)

    In any case, the subculture can be very stultifying. I'm still trying to work out which of my reactions are sensible and which are too much when I have to deal with people of strong beliefs. That's why I can get sort of touchy when evangelical faith issues get involved in politics. (That's my bias.)

    That's understandable. Between being a nonbeliever, a gifted student, an unusual personality, and my having been raised to speak up and voice my opinions freely, I have a tendency to be very brash and assume that everyone can see my point of view (if not agree with it), if I state it in an articulate and forceful manner. Part of it is also the Internet and this forum. I am rarely very serious in person, even when politics comes up. I certainly don't go around speaking paragraph after paragraph of involved political discourse. That's just how my brain works when I am writing. I have my biases, too (in politics, anti-authoritarian and pro-freedom, even if it seems dangerous, unfair, or unwise). I'd like to think I've earned them through careful consideration, though.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #436
    Senior Member Array Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    What does that have to do with my point?
    Your point was basically "I'm not afraid, so you shouldn't be either". My response was basically "It's understandable that you wouldn't fear increased governmental wealth redistribution, given your ideology".

    You keep trying to argue something that just isn't there.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #437
    No moss growing on me Array Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    I mean, the polls say he is up and all that... but is he really going to win?...
    This election mimics the 2004 Presidential elections and lest we forget how that turned out....


  8. #438
    Senior Member Array NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    This election mimics the 2004 Presidential elections
    Except this time it's the Republicans who have the douchebag.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

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    Senior Member Array ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    This election mimics the 2004 Presidential elections and lest we forget how that turned out....
    It really isn't. At this point, the prediction markets show Obama would win upwards of 90% of the time.

    It's not a close race, but pretending it is makes for good TV. The election was pretty much decided when McCain picked Palin.

  10. #440
    Senior Member Array NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It really isn't. At this point, the prediction markets show Obama would win upwards of 90% of the time..
    I keep lobbying for a non-edge-of-the-seat news channel, but it keeps not happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's not a close race, but pretending it is makes for good TV. The election was pretty much decided when McCain picked Palin.
    My buddy recently said: "It's too bad for McCain that he couldn't have waited until a week before the election to choose Palin as running mate."
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

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