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Thread: Is Obama Really Going to Win?

  1. #421
    He pronks, too! Array Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You're the one who's labeled yourself, not me.
    Yes... But that's irrelevant. I labeled myself a socialist, based on what I believe and what I understand socialism to mean. What does that have to do with my point?

    Your responses to people whenever they talk about socialism or communism seem to indicate that you haven't actually studied the subject very much.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Yep, just as I fucking suspected, he's anti-U.S. Constitution. That son of a bitch.
    Yeah, it looks like my suspicions are well-founded. What's really scary is that Obama is likely going to have a fillibuster-proof Senate majority through which to attack the Constitutional and philisophical foundations of the United States. Let's hope he gets over-confident and shows his cards too overtly; that should create enough of a backlash that he only has two years in which to inflict long-term damage through a temporary majority dominated (through representatives rather than supporters) by the radical left-wing of the Democratic party coalition. Unfortunately, I think these revelations came too late in the game to make any difference this election, though Republican legislators in competitive districts might just be able to use this to squeak through enough wins to obstruct the more radical portions of Obama's agenda with the aid of centrist Democrats.

    And Peguy, what is the difference between un-American and post-American in the context of a state-nation based on classical liberal principles, ideas, and institutions expressed through a written constitution?
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 10-27-2008 at 10:11 PM. Reason: had more to add

  3. #423
    Senior Member Array kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Your responses to people whenever they talk about socialism or communism seem to indicate that you haven't actually studied the subject very much.
    These "smells like Socialism to me" mantras, that look for "knee jerk" responses, ( to borrow a phrase from Peguy ) have all the depth of a Budweiser ad informing us again and again that "the difference is drinkability".
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

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    Senior Member Array NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Yep, just as I fucking suspected, he's anti-U.S. Constitution. That son of a bitch.
    Yeah, he's gonna wipe his ass with the whole document...we'll end up as bad off as those commie bastards, the British.

    Which article of the Constitution, in particular, do you think he's anti-?
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  5. #425
    Order Now! Array pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuranes View Post

    Wow, that article is really one gigantic flimsy premise. How can you measure the personal Christian behavior of people in a country by the amount of money the government spends? Talk about trying to mix church and state! This guy is out to lunch.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #426
    Boring old fossil Array Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Wow, that article is really one gigantic flimsy premise. How can you measure the personal Christian behavior of people in a country by the amount of money the government spends? Talk about trying to mix church and state! This guy is out to lunch.
    Is that what the article was trying to measure though, pure_mercury?

    My read was a bit different. Seemed like the author was making the case that people used popular tenets within Christianity to justify contradictory behaviors. More of a critique of American behavior as largely unsympathetic in practice to the theoretical framework offered by Christian theosophy.

  7. #427
    Order Now! Array pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Is that what the article was trying to measure though, pure_mercury?

    My read was a bit different. Seemed like the author was making the case that people used popular tenets within Christianity to justify contradictory behaviors. More of a critique of American behavior as largely unsympathetic in practice to the theoretical framework offered by Christian theosophy.

    He sure spent a lot of time decrying the amount of foreign aid we send out and our infant mortality rates. Pretty lame, especially the foreign aid by percentage of GDP. The United States sends out more foreign aid than any country on Earth, but our economy is so huge that it's a drop in our collective bucket. He neglected to mention that Americans donate more money and time to charity than any other nation, as well. If it were a simple, "don't be a hyprocrite if you claim to be some committed Christian" homily, then I'd agree. Many of the worst people in this country are devout Christians. He didn't leave it at that, because he obviously had a political ax to grind. I can't respect that. That is the same as an evangelical preacher telling people never to vote for a pro-choice candidate.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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    Boring old fossil Array Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    He sure spent a lot of time decrying the amount of foreign aid we send out and our infant mortality rates. Pretty lame, especially the foreign aid by percentage of GDP. The United States sends out more foreign aid than any country on Earth, but our economy is so huge that it's a drop in our collective bucket. He neglected to mention that Americans donate more money and time to charity than any other nation, as well. If it were a simple, "don't be a hyprocrite if you claim to be some committed Christian" homily, then I'd agree. Many of the worst people in this country are devout Christians. He didn't leave it at that, because he obviously had a political ax to grind. I can't respect that.
    Well said.

    Journalists/authors selectively include facts that serve the bottom line of their article/personal philosophy above the objectivity of their offered concept. How well they sell their work depends on the provocative nature of their creation. Not really a justification, more an invitation for the reader to independently form their impression with critical analysis.

    Which is where we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Wow, that article is really one gigantic flimsy premise. How can you measure the personal Christian behavior of people in a country by the amount of money the government spends? Talk about trying to mix church and state! This guy is out to lunch.
    I skimmed the whole article to get a feel for tone.

    How much did you actually read? It sounds to me like you read, oh, the first few paragraphs, before you dismissed it? Most of the rest of the article seemed to deal directly with American culture itself, not just the "overseas money" issue. Your criticism deals with, oh, maybe 10% of the article -- but you represented it here in this thread as the entirety of his writing.

    I didn't get the picture that he had an axe to grind; I got the idea that he's a Christian himself who is taking a pretty thoughtful stance on inconsistencies within the body of believers with which he identifies himself.

    I don't know if you came up within the church. I did. It seemed to ring pretty true, and it's not because I've got an axe to grind, it's simply one of the disparities within modern American faith that is a curiosity if you are outside the faith and a pain in the ass if you're INSIDE and getting kicked in the teeth by it if you ever dare to challenge status quo.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    ‚ÄúPleasure to me is wonder‚ÄĒthe unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.‚ÄĚ ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    I don't know if you came up within the church. I did. It seemed to ring pretty true, and it's not because I've got an axe to grind, it's simply one of the disparities within modern American faith that is a curiosity if you are outside the faith and a pain in the ass if you're INSIDE and getting kicked in the teeth by it if you ever dare to challenge status quo.
    This is true for just about every religion. This is true for most organizations and institutions. People don't like to actually change when it requires them to change themselves. Thus, things remain the same and the people who challenge them to change are chastised. This is human nature, not CHRISTIAN nature. I have to say that everyone who tries to attack Christianity and any other religion that way are in themselves guilty of being inflicted with this disease. Yet they will not realize it because they have the same blinder on if not worse than the people who refuse to change their ways in such religions. DONE.

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