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Thread: Is Obama Really Going to Win?

  1. #411
    Senior Member Array Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I find nothing about it frightening or offensive.
    Of course you don't. You're a self-proclaimed socialist. Or is it communist? I forgot.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Of course you don't. You're a self-proclaimed socialist. Or is it communist? I forgot.
    There is a difference between "socialists" and Communists per se. In fact the division between the two caused the collaspe of the Second International, which was succeeded by Lenin's Third International - which was for Communists only.

    So yes in Stalin's day, Magic would've been sent to the Gulags for being a petti-bourgeois dupe.

  3. #413
    He pronks, too! Array Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ok, so you're a standard American "Democratic Socialist".
    Whatever definition floats your boat. Frankly, I've hardly heard anyone in this country speak of business cooperatives.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Frankly, I've hardly heard anyone in this country speak of business cooperatives.
    Hmmn I can think of a few.

  5. #415
    Senior Member Array kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So it's a perrenial challenge for ANY culture to live out the faith. That's still doesn't undermine the importance of faith to that culture and its heritage.
    Fair enough. The author admits to not being involved with religion much himself anymore. I don't think he is attempting to undermine its faith or heritage at all, though. It seems to me more that he is reminding readers who are Christian about those other parts of the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So is this a geniune attempt to call on Americans to actually be the Christian nation they claim to be, or just an attempt to knee-jerk the Christian right to serve a narrow political purpose? I got a sense of the latter being the case.
    If the "love your neighbor as yourself" was some marginal or disputed and controversial piece of Christianity, then I could see your point more clearly, but it isn't. It would seem to fit in with a broad purpose, actually, regardless of affiliation.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  6. #416
    He pronks, too! Array Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    There is a difference between "socialists" and Communists per se. In fact the division between the two caused the collaspe of the Second International, which was succeeded by Lenin's Third International - which was for Communists only.

    So yes in Stalin's day, Magic would've been sent to the Gulags for being a petti-bourgeois dupe.
    Not that Stalin established a system much at all like the communism that Marx described. His system will still actually closer to perhaps a really bastardized sort of Socialism, if it could even be given that much credit.

    It all does make me wonder how much Jack and Lateralus have actually read about the subject of communism and socialism.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Not that Stalin established a system much at all like the communism that Marx described. His system will still actually closer to perhaps a really bastardized sort of Socialism, if it could even be given that much credit.
    Quite honestly I have more respect for the Pro-Stalin camp than for many of its detractors among socialists - especially Trotskyists. At least Stalinists knew when to bend to reality now and then.

  8. #418
    He pronks, too! Array Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Quite honestly I have more respect for the Pro-Stalin camp than for many of its detractors among socialists - especially Trotskyists. At least Stalinists knew when to bend to reality now and then.
    Ahhh, Stalin vs Trotsky. Such T vs such F. Haha.
    But regardless, my comparison was of Stalin to Marx, and the two clearly didn't match. As for my reference to his place in socialism, some may have been worse than Stalin. but the over-all point stands that he was well below what we would want from Socialism. Well, well, below. I think we can all agree on that.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    but the over-all point stands that he was well below what we would want from Socialism. Well, well, below. I think we can all agree on that.
    Well of course I agree. My socialism is non-authoritarian and non-statist by nature. Nevertheless, I don't agree with the standard critique given of Stalinism, especially among those on the Left.

  10. #420
    Senior Member Array Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It all does make me wonder how much Jack and Lateralus have actually read about the subject of communism and socialism.
    You're the one who's labeled yourself, not me.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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