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Thread: Is Obama Really Going to Win?

  1. #401
    Senior Member Array kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ehh.....nothing I haven't heard already. A somewhat misleading and overly simplistic take on the issue of Christianity and culture.
    Did you already read it elsewhere ?
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  2. #402
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    MBTI Central is pretty fringey.
    Nah, I've seen far worse.

  3. #403
    mountain surfing Array nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    MBTI Central is pretty fringey.
    to me, MBTI Central = America.

    =)

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuranes View Post
    Did you already read it elsewhere ?
    No I've heard this stuff before trying to show that America is not really a Christian country.

  5. #405
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    I chose Socialist as my label because it is more accurate.
    The only problem is that there are shitloads of different variations of socialism. So care to be a bit more specific?

  6. #406
    Senior Member Array kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No I've heard this stuff before trying to show that America is not really a Christian country.
    I was going to say that seven minutes since my posting is pretty good time for having read the full article, and not just assuming what it was saying. It is a more nuanced article than this summary dismissal of yours would allow, and the author is saying that many Christians today seem to focus on only certain aspects of the Bible, and that many even confuse things that statesmen have said with things that the Bible has said. A little irony in calling it "overly simplistic" if you haven't even read it.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  7. #407
    Seriously Delirious Array Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Sure that's just not the Alzheimer's?
    Nah... having cared for an Alzheimer's patient for over a year now, I'm not seeing any clues of that.

    Now Bush on the other hand is a compelling case:

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z12lrlNsjgQ"]Bush Then and Now[/YOUTUBE]

  8. #408
    He pronks, too! Array Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    The only problem is that there are shitloads of different variations of socialism. So care to be a bit more specific?
    Okay. I believe in Socialism that still includes markets in its economy. I think they should be kept around but 1) there should be some subtantial amount of government augmentaiton. This is not a command economy, though, because the markets are there, they're just being influenced. 2) I think incentive should be created for cooperatives to overcome cooperations as the predominate economic entity in society.

    Now, what would be the purpose of some of these regulations? My main goals are to lower inequality of wealth to as much of a degree as is feasibly possible. We're never going to be totally equal, but we can be a hell of a lot more flat than any country is right now. The GINIs out there are terrible. Secondly, I want to provide as much guaranteed care for the citizens of society as possible. So naturally, I'm a big supporter of universal health-care. I don't want the concept of universal care done through insurance companies or crap like that, though. I'm thinking that as something that is now basically considered a fundamental right of my society, it makes more sense as a national institution.

    I'm still a major supporter of democracy, and in fact, I don't think systems like the one in the USA are nearly democratic enough. This is another reason why I support things like cooperatives. Ideally (and I know these ideals are far-fetched), people would learn the value of these concepts and appreciate them, so they wouldn't use their democratic rights to tear them down. It basicallys comes to a matter of education...

    Anyway, I'm rambling. I know that's still pretty vague. Democratic government, cooperative/democratic business, working with each other by way of government regulated markets, to create maximum citizen care and equality. So sure, it gets more specific than that, like issues of what people have the right to own (like the dubiousness lack of purpose that land owners seem to have), but I just don't feel like going into much detail right now.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuranes View Post
    I was going to say that seven minutes since my posting is pretty good time for having read the full article, and not just assuming what it was saying. It is a more nuanced article than this summary dismissal of yours would allow, and the author is saying that many Christians today seem to focus on only certain aspects of the Bible, and that many even confuse things that statesmen have said with things that the Bible has said.
    Yes and this ties very much into many Christian critiques of mainstream culture, including but not limited to Kierkegaard's assaults upon Christendom. That's all fine and dandy, and I fully support it.

    However, as I mentioned, the relation between religion and culture is more complex than that. We can even look into the example of the Israelites in the Bible itself; they're constantly reprimended by God himself and prophets speaking on his behalf for their failures to live up to the commandments.

    So it's a perrenial challenge for ANY culture to live out the faith. That's still doesn't undermine the importance of faith to that culture and its heritage.

    So is this a geniune attempt to call on Americans to actually be the Christian nation they claim to be, or just an attempt to knee-jerk the Christian right to serve a narrow political purpose? I got a sense of the latter being the case; wheras Kierkegaard's polemics seem to serve the former role.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Okay. I believe in Socialism that still includes markets in its economy. I think they should be kept around but 1) there should be some subtantial amount of government augmentaiton. This is not a command economy, though, because the markets are there, they're just being influenced. 2) I think incentive should be created for cooperatives to overcome cooperations as the predominate economic entity in society.

    Now, what would be the purpose of some of these regulations? My main goals are to lower inequality of wealth to as much of a degree as is feasibly possible. We're never going to be totally equal, but we can be a hell of a lot more flat than any country is right now. The GINIs out there are terrible. Secondly, I want to provide as much guaranteed care for the citizens of society as possible. So naturally, I'm a big supporter of universal health-care. I don't want the concept of universal care done through insurance companies or crap like that, though. I'm thinking that as something that is now basically considered a fundamental right of my society, it makes more sense as a national institution.

    I'm still a major supporter of democracy, and in fact, I don't think systems like the one in the USA are nearly democratic enough. This is another reason why I support things like cooperatives. Ideally (and I know these ideals are far-fetched), people would learn the value of these concepts and appreciate them, so they wouldn't use their democratic rights to tear them down. It basicallys comes to a matter of education...

    Anyway, I'm rambling. I know that's still pretty vague. Democratic government, cooperative/democratic business, working with each other by way of government regulated markets, to create maximum citizen care and equality. So sure, it gets more specific than that, like issues of what people have the right to own (like the dubiousness lack of purpose that land owners seem to have), but I just don't feel like going into much detail right now.
    Ok, so you're a standard American "Democratic Socialist".

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