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  1. #251
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    What? You're serious? I had thought the Muslim reference was to make people uneasy because of a hasty paranoid mental-connection with Al-Qaeda, which has been floating around since September 2001. I didn't think people meant it as an excuse to be racist for something else. But more people have posted below this supposing the same thing. Do you guys really observe this?
    It is xenophobia to be sure, if not strictly racism. It is obviously irrational fear of the other, the "exotic." For those who aren't afraid of black men, some of Obama's opponents (who also may have legitimate beefs with him) offer other things to be afraid of.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #252
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    I guess if that's what you meant, you could expand both "fears" to one category. I was thinking of the two different motivations for the fear: "Oh no, he's black!" and "Oh no, he's the same race as those 9-11 terrorists!"
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  3. #253
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Isn't he more of the definition of an ex-terrorist?
    How do you get to be an ex-terrorist, short of committing your life to preventing terrorism?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #254
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Obama is friends with a terrorist. Singular. Let's get it right!
    They rubbed shoulders in Chicago, both being prominent on the scene there, but that is not the same thing as friendship.

    Bill Ayers has a despicable past and there is evidence to suggest his basic ideologies have not changed, but he is welcomed into the upper strata of Chicago political, social, and academic scenes. "He is now a professor in the College of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, holding the titles of Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar." [wiki]. He is a celebrated member of society there and that is not Obama's doing, but the doing of many individuals both Republican and Democrat. To happen to serve on a board together or to rub shoulders a bit says very little about how Obama might think about Ayers opinions on the U.S. Their mutual interaction was focused on social programs and such. Turning this into an "Obama is a terrorist" shit is contrived and says more about the McCain and Palin campaign.

    Palin's husband was a member until 2002 of the Alaska Independence Party. Palin has addressed this group publically in support. This group has a separatist agenda to make Alaska independent of the U.S. Joe Vogler, the founder of the Alaskan Independence Party made the following comments in a 1991 interview.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogler
    "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," Vogler said in the interview, in which he talked extensively about his desire for Alaskan secession, the key goal of the AIP.

    "And I won't be buried under their damn flag," Vogler continued in the interview, which also touched on his disappointment with the American judicial system. "I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."
    link for quote

    Here is a clip where Palin addresses the AIP.
    YouTube - Alaska Governor Palin's Address to the AIP

    I appreciate the fact that the Obama campaign hasn't exploited this to get their crowds riled up.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)


  5. #255
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Palin's husband was a member until 2002 of the Alaska Independence Party. Palin has addressed this group publically in support. This group has a separatist agenda to make Alaska independent of the U.S. Joe Vogler, the founder of the Alaskan Independence Party made the following comments in a 1991 interview.

    link for quote

    Here is a clip where Palin addresses the AIP.
    YouTube - Alaska Governor Palin's Address to the AIP

    I appreciate the fact that the Obama campaign hasn't exploited this to get their crowds riled up.
    Actually, this has been brought up a lot, though not directly by Obama or Biden. There is absolutely no moral equivalence between being an Alaskan secessionist and being a bomb-throwing radical leftist.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #256
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    xcuse.

    Just read an interesting article in "The Root" this morning by Sam Fulwood III called "Sleepless in Obamaland."

    Edit: It's his take on the hope for Obama's election.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #257
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Please. No amount of logic, reason, or proof will convince most of these folks (including, apparently, you) that Obama's connection to Ayers is not close, even though that's what investigations have concluded.
    I've already characterized that relationship as "far less than pals, far more than casual acquaintances." I've also referenced a Michael Barone article that says essentially the same thing (Udog may remember which thread that was, I don't). Try not to accuse me of something that I explicitly stated was not the case. I harp on the Ayers case because it is added atop twenty years worth of connections (some close, some merely instrumental) with highly questionable people, and because some people (and I'm not accusing you of this) seem to think there was absolutely nothing wrong about it.

    Insinuating that McCain supporters are closet racists because a small number might be is the same thing as insinuating that Obama supporters are anti-American, "blame-America-first" radical leftist who are ashamed rather than proud of most of the cultural, ideological, and institutional characteristics that set the United States apart from other developed countries-again, because some of his vocal supporters could be characterized as such. Its a divisive tactic that creates an atmosphere in which people are assumed guilty unless proven otherwise.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 10-25-2008 at 12:01 PM. Reason: forgot a word

  8. #258
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Actually, this has been brought up a lot, though not directly by Obama or Biden. There is absolutely no moral equivalence between being an Alaskan secessionist and being a bomb-throwing radical leftist.
    And there is no equivalent between choosing membership and making public statements of support for an anti-american group and serving with someone with a past on a board.

    Here's a question. What choices could Obama have made in the past so that this connection to Bill Ayers could not be established? Should he have refused to serve on the board of an anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 1999 and 2002 because Ayers was also on the board? Should Obama have decided to take Ayers down independently and started a negative campaign against him in Chicago to ruin his career? What were Obama's choices? What did he not do that he should have to avert this blemish on his record?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)


  9. #259
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Here's a question. What choices could Obama have made in the past so that this connection to Bill Ayers could not be established? Should he have refused to serve on the board of an anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 1999 and 2002 because Ayers was also on the board? Should Obama have decided to take Ayers down independently and started a negative campaign against him in Chicago to ruin his career? What were Obama's choices? What did he not do that he should have to avert this blemish on his record?
    What were GWB's choices regarding his address of Bob Jones University in an intense primary battle? People still condemn that as a moral failing (and rightly so), despite the necessity of it.

  10. #260
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    It is xenophobia to be sure, if not strictly racism.
    Kind of like the fear of Evangelicals? One person's irrational fear of the other is another's rational fear of the consequences that derive from specific belief systems.

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