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  1. #181
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I would guess that California has a budget shortfall because a.) you spend more money that you recieve from taxes and, much more importantly, b.) your tax and regulatory policies are an expensive, complicated and risky pain in the ass for wealth-generating businesses.

    As for the subsidization issue, do Californians pay a higher percentage of their income to the national government based on their geographic location? Or are you instead bemoaning the consequences of having a Supreme Court which thinks that the Commerce Clause empowers the national government to do (and therefore give money in support of) just about anything?
    California has a budget shortfall because we pay more than we receive in federal taxes and federal services.

    For instance, California pays 500 billion in taxes to the federal government. But gets $300 billion in federal services.

    That extra 200 billion will go to states like Kentucky and Oklahoma, who gets more federal services than the amount of federal taxes they pay.

    I rather that 200 billion in extra federal taxes stay in California. Bottom line. New York, New Jersey, Illinois, all these states also get screwed over in this same way.

    Every Californian can go to a UC or a Cal State for free if we kept that money in California.

  2. #182

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    This thread started simple enough, but got progressively tiresome as I continued to read it...At one point I was going to quote Haight about the major derail, but I would've added a LOT more cursing to his original statements.

    Fuck, people: keep politics in politics and religion in religion. I'll tolerably read one, but have a severe headache reading the other.

    And, yes, Obama will most likely win. I don't care for either candidate, really, but Obama, hopefully, will refuse to have terms like Bush. Overwelming stagnation is never good. McCain = continued stagnation. Things will continue to be the same, simply because we're accustomed to our "traditional" way of doing things the same...Fuck that, even if it does associate with SJs. :steam: I'm convinced we need change.

    Meh.
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArbiterDewey View Post
    This thread started simple enough, but got progressively tiresome as I continued to read it...At one point I was going to quote Haight about the major derail, but I would've added a LOT more cursing to his original statements.

    Fuck, people: keep politics in politics and religion in religion. I'll tolerably read one, but have a severe headache reading the other.

    And, yes, Obama will most likely win. I don't care for either candidate, really, but Obama, hopefully, will refuse to have terms like Bush. Overwelming stagnation is never good. McCain = continued stagnation. Things will continue to be the same, simply because we're accustomed to our "traditional" way of doing things the same...Fuck that, even if it does associate with SJs. :steam: I'm convinced we need change.

    Meh.
    I agree. Obama will most likely win, and I'm not wild about either candidate either. This has to be one of the worst presidential elections I've ever seen!!!!

    I agree we need "change", but I don't think Obama will bring it anymore than McCain would.

    Obama's a politician. Politics have stayed the same for hundreds of years and no candidate with a funny name is going to change that without leading some type of coup against the government, lol.

    And really, if he wanted change, why in hell did he pick Biden as his VP candidate? That guy is "old school" politics, not change.

    You want change? Get all of those crooks out of Congress, pronto!!! Elect some new blood.

    At least Palin is outside the box. Unlike Biden.

    I'm probably going to vote Libertarian simply out of principle.

  4. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    California has a budget shortfall because we pay more than we receive in federal taxes and federal services.

    For instance, California pays 500 billion in taxes to the federal government. But gets $300 billion in federal services.

    That extra 200 billion will go to states like Kentucky and Oklahoma, who gets more federal services than the amount of federal taxes they pay.

    I rather that 200 billion in extra federal taxes stay in California. Bottom line. New York, New Jersey, Illinois, all these states also get screwed over in this same way.

    Every Californian can go to a UC or a Cal State for free if we kept that money in California.


    That is wrong. California cannot have a budget shortfall due to paying more into the federal government than it does in return. RESIDENTS of California and BUSINESSES based in California pay into the federal government (along with their state and local governments), but the federal government has no control over what the Californian government spends. They set their own budgets, and it's their fault if they exceed it. State governments are especially horrible about deficits, because they love to ride high when the economy is good in their state, then they collapse when there is a downturn. Also, they have high transportation and education overhead.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That is wrong. California cannot have a budget shortfall due to paying more into the federal government than it does in return. RESIDENTS of California and BUSINESSES based in California pay into the federal government (along with their state and local governments), but the federal government has no control over what the Californian government spends. They set their own budgets, and it's their fault if they exceed it. State governments are especially horrible about deficits, because they love to ride high when the economy is good in their state, then they collapse when there is a downturn. Also, they have high transportation and education overhead.
    We pay RIDICULOUS amounts of money in public transportation projects. ABSURD amounts. Yet half the time it does nothing to alleviate traffic as they so stupidly promise.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That is wrong. California cannot have a budget shortfall due to paying more into the federal government than it does in return. RESIDENTS of California and BUSINESSES based in California pay into the federal government (along with their state and local governments), but the federal government has no control over what the Californian government spends. They set their own budgets, and it's their fault if they exceed it. State governments are especially horrible about deficits, because they love to ride high when the economy is good in their state, then they collapse when there is a downturn. Also, they have high transportation and education overhead.
    The federal balance of payments DEFICIT is HUGE for California.

    http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/BS_SCH8.pdf

    Look at every line item. Every one would improve directly or indirectly if California didn't have to subsidize lazy states.

    In 2002, Californians sent in excess of $58 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received back in federal spending. Fueled largely by a sharp increase in its tax burden relative to other states, the Golden Stateís imbalance set another record for any state, surpassing the previous mark (set also by California, in 2001) of $47 billion.
    The federal balance of payments actually WORSENED during 2000-2002 during the dot com recession.

    California's Balance of Payments with the Federal Treasury, 1981-2002

    Essentially, California subsidizes lazy states. Its disgusting.

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    The federal balance of payments DEFICIT is HUGE for California.

    http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/BS_SCH8.pdf

    Look at every line item. Every one would improve directly or indirectly if California didn't have to subsidize lazy states.



    The federal balance of payments actually WORSENED during 2000-2002 during the dot com recession.

    California's Balance of Payments with the Federal Treasury, 1981-2002

    Essentially, California subsidizes lazy states. Its disgusting.


    But that has nothing to do with California's budget deficit! California sets California's budget, and it spends more than it takes in. Do you want to secede from the Union because California is a net donor to the federal coffers? If not, you aren't making any relevant point here.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #188
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    Why do states like California, New York, Delaware, Illinois, Massachusetts, Oregon, Washington, have to subsidize states like Arkansas, Kentucky, Montana, Okalahoma, North Dakota?

    Why???

    Federal Balance of Payments Per Capita, by State statistics - USA Census numbers

    In fact, as we will see in this report, the federal system largely redistributes resources from high-income states to low-income states.
    We will find, however, that the federal tax system, especially the individual income tax, is a major force leading to the re distribution of resources among the states.
    State differences in the federal balance of payments. | Defense & Aerospace > Defense Industry from AllBusiness.com

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    But that has nothing to do with California's budget deficit! California sets California's budget, and it spends more than it takes in. Do you want to secede from the Union because California is a net donor to the federal coffers? If not, you aren't making any relevant point here.
    Like I said, every line item will improve if California as well as other states that subsidize other states didn't have to.

    State differences in the federal balance of payments. | Defense & Aerospace > Defense Industry from AllBusiness.com

    We will find, however, that the federal tax system, especially the individual income tax, is a major force leading to the re distribution of resources among the states.
    Actually, given how crazy things have been for the past 8 years, being independent sounds better than going thru the past 8 years all over again.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post


    Actually, given how crazy things have been for the past 8 years, being independent sounds better than going thru the past 8 years all over again.
    Good. Then we can save the rest of America from the maniacal lunacy of Sacramento.

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