User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 45

  1. #31
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6?
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Communes are just a worse version of capitalism. There, you have to work and for no extra reward. We get much the same effect with the rat race here by the people too stupid to make anything of themselves. Except here, it's a matter of choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    You mean, commune-ism?

    Communes are the awesome version of communism. It is all a matter of choice--if you go and live in a commune, that's a choice. It's not like it's state-imposed.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #32
    se˝or member colmena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    1,550

    Default

    After some OT experience, I think I'll have an idea whether I could handle working and living in a Camphill Community. I went to one (the helpers looked very tired), and the lovely lady who showed me around had two children. The eldest child was at the Waldorf school next door (I much prefer their philosophy to normal schools), and the youngest (3-4) had free reign of the community. She said that, while she likes her son growing up with nature, and tolerance and compassion towards those with learning difficulties, she also doesn't get that mother-child bond; simply because so many other people helped to look after him.

    Because they're a charity, the buildings are very modern, have electricity etc, but they maintain the biodynamic/organic/minimalist lifestyle.

    Camphill Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Waldorf education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  3. #33
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by colmena View Post
    The eldest child was at the Waldorf school next door (I much prefer their philosophy to normal schools)
    I love some things about Waldorf schools, but I got scared off by Rudolf Steiner's anthroposophy. We seriously considered sending Thing 1 to a local Waldorf school. I loved the emphasis on "head, heart, hands"-- it seemed like a wonderfully well-rounded way to educate a child. Ditto on the natural materials and role of teacher as assistant to learning children (though also a clear authority figure if necessary). It all seemed very nice until I started digging deeper and found out the weirdness underneath. Like how kids aren't allowed to read certain books I consider to be very age appropriate, or use certain colors of crayon until a certain age. In fact, kids under a certain age are actively discouraged from learning to read. I appreciated that they didn't pressure kids, because there's a range of normal when it comes to children learning to read and for the most part they've leveled out by 3rd grade or so, but I didn't realize they actively discouraged it. Then I found out how they teach history to the older kids, in "pre-Atlantean" and "post-Atlantean" eras.

    Other gentle methods of education have the good parts of Waldorf but don't have all the crazy stuff. Some examples include Quaker education, experiential/Foxfire, and the project approach. I still prefer these methods to regular elementary education at least, but I'd choose a regular public school over a Waldorf at this point.

    Oddly enough, so would David Gilmour of Pink Floyd:

    Daily Telegraph Article: "We Don't Need No Steiner Education"
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #34
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    There are communes and communes, so it's difficult to make a precise answer... but to the concept generally, I give you William Bradford's reply:

    So they begane to thinke how they might raise as much corne as they could, and obtaine a beter crope then they had done, that they might not still thus languish in miserie. At length, after much debate of things, the Govr (with ye advise of ye cheefest amongest them) gave way that they should set corne every man for his owne perticuler, and in that regard trust to them selves; in all other things to goe on in ye generall way as before. And so assigned to every family a parcell of land, according to the proportion of their number for that end, only for present use (but made no devission for inheritance), and ranged all boys & youth under some familie. This had very good success; for it made all hands very industrious, so as much more corne was planted then other waise would have bene by any means ye Govr or any other could use, and saved him a great deall of trouble, and gave farr better contente. The women now wente willingly into ye feild, and tooke their litle-ons with them to set corne, which before would aledg weaknes, and inabilitie; whom to have compelled would have bene thought great tiranie and oppression.

    The experience that was had in this comone course and condition, tried sundrie years, and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanitie of that conceite of Platos & other ancients, applauded by some of later times; that ye taking away of propertie, and bringing in comunitie into a comone wealth, would make them happy and florishing; as if they were wiser then God. For this comunitie (so farr as it was) was found to breed much confusion & discontent, and retard much imploymet that would have been to their beneflte and comforte. For ye yong-men that were most able and fitte for labour & service did repine that they should spend their time & streingth to worke for other mens wives and children, with out any recompence. The strong, or man of parts, had no more in devission of victails & cloaths, then he that was weake and not able to doe a quarter ye other could; this was thought injuestice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalised in labours, and victails, cloaths, &c., with ye meaner & yonger sorte, thought it some indignite & disrespect unto them. And for mens wives to be commanded to doe servise for other men, as dresing their meate, washing their cloaths, &c., they deemd it a kind of slaverie, neither could many husbands well brooke it. Upon ye poynte all being to have alike, and all to doe alike, they thought them selves in ye like condition, and one as good as another; and so, if it did not cut of those relations that God hath set amongest men, yet it did at least much diminish and take of ye mutuall respects that should be preserved amongst them. And would have bene worse if they had been men of another condition. Let none objecte this is men's corruption, and nothing to ye course it selfe. I answer, seeing all men have this corruption in them, God in his wisdome saw another course fiter for them.


    - William Bradford, Of Plimoth Plantation

    Bradford noted that the people who attempted to make this work were generally of good heart and best intentions, honest folk who really meant to make a go of it... and yet the above was the result.

    Bradford also notes later in the history that when all were allotted their own ground and were permitted ownership of their produce (rather than holding all farm goods in common), the colony went from shortage to surplus, which then facilitated trade with the Indians and among the colonists themselves.

    On the whole, I think communal living is reasonable and viable for those who choose it deliberately. It's not for everybody.

  5. #35
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Just glancing over the intentional communities website, very very few are 100% communal (i.e. no personal property, everything given to the group to share). Only one that I clicked on in my state out of a long list was like that, and it seemed to be some kind of ashram or possibly a cult or both. Granted, I didn't click on all of them, and the ones in the mountains are probably more likely to be truly communal. But most seemed to be single-family houses with independent finances and a common space for gathering to share food. It seemed to be more about convenient neighborhood potlucks than hippie commune. I'd probably want just a shade more cooperative stuff than that (shared childcare and cooking on a regular basis would be awesome) but I'd still want to have my own space and not be pressured to leave it to mingle every day.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #36
    Senor Membrane
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    I like the idea of communes, but they have practical problems. Many of these are about people not cooperating enough, people being too selfish. And I admit it would be difficult to try and raise crop somewhere out there. The people are so accustomed in getting what they want when they want it that there would be deserters as soon as it gets tough.

    But, at least here they call a group living in a same house a "commune" even if there is no ideology and no divorce from society. Well, usually they are a bunch of hippies in the way they live, but I still wouldn't call it shared ideology. Anyways, this is the kind of commune that I would like to live in. I've seen some of the more real communes and it didn't seem like it was good for long time. The more light type of commune where the point is to live with other people is much more for me.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I like the idea of communes, but they have practical problems. Many of these are about people not cooperating enough, people being too selfish.
    Well, they can't really be compared to tribal life because the people in these communes didn't grow up together. They're strangers. There's no emotional investment in the other people in the commune. And they know they could just leave if they wanted, so what's to keep someone from taking advantage of others? The risk vs reward ratio is much lower than it was back in tribal days.
    "We grow up thinking that´╗┐ beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are´╗┐ easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of´╗┐ a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #38
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    XNXP
    Posts
    1,065

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I like the idea of communes, but they have practical problems. Many of these are about people not cooperating enough, people being too selfish. And I admit it would be difficult to try and raise crop somewhere out there. The people are so accustomed in getting what they want when they want it that there would be deserters as soon as it gets tough.

    But, at least here they call a group living in a same house a "commune" even if there is no ideology and no divorce from society. Well, usually they are a bunch of hippies in the way they live, but I still wouldn't call it shared ideology. Anyways, this is the kind of commune that I would like to live in. I've seen some of the more real communes and it didn't seem like it was good for long time. The more light type of commune where the point is to live with other people is much more for me.
    +1

    In the book "A Walk Across America" by Peter Jenkins, he stays for a while in "The Farm" commune in Tennessee, and I remember him not liking it that much. I suppose it would partly depend on the people you were going into this with, and not just on the stated "philosophy" per se. I think I would share Ivy's qualifiers about not sharing everything, but just certain things.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  9. #39
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Well, they can't really be compared to tribal life because the people in these communes didn't grow up together. They're strangers. There's no emotional investment in the other people in the commune. And they know they could just leave if they wanted, so what's to keep someone from taking advantage of others? The risk vs reward ratio is much lower than it was back in tribal days.
    Very true. My fantasy usually involves having my siblings and bestest friends sharing the commune with me. I can't guarantee I would like anyone in a commune if I just joined one today. (And, to be fair, vice versa.)

    Another thing that would keep me from joining one is that most of the people I've known or known of who are or would consider commune life are very uncritical of the ideas that lead them to that lifestyle, and they expect the same uncritical attitude of others. Of course that would be most evident in a cultish setting but I think it's there on a smaller scale in any idealistic intentional community. If you're not sure organic is always better than conventional, or maybe if you think it's okay to put the baby in a playpen once in awhile to give the caretaker a break, WTF are you even doing there?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #40
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    I had forgotten he stayed at the farm, kuranes. I need to reread that! I think I was in 8th or 9th grade when I read it before, and I enjoyed it a lot.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

Similar Threads

  1. novel characters type. what do you think about them?
    By teothebest in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-21-2014, 05:23 PM
  2. Replies: 27
    Last Post: 06-16-2009, 09:52 AM
  3. What do you think about people who like dark places?
    By Virtual ghost in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-07-2008, 10:55 AM
  4. What do you think about?
    By proteanmix in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 04-06-2008, 01:48 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO