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  1. #51
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Folks, race is very much still alive in the minds of us all. As long as we see each other as being of a different race and a different culture, we will always experience that divide. It's a natural law. As long as humans have reason to separate themselves into groups, by whatever criteria, we will always be divided and discriminating. To think that race wouldn't be an issue is to delude yourself, and ignore the reality. That in itself feeds the core problem. Hence, the white people who vote for Obama BECAUSE he's black, and it makes them feel good (like people who buy $40 canvas bags to use at the grocery store... once or twice a year). Such a grave disparity between what the reality in the subconscious of human beings is, and what we choose to BELIEVE is in our minds...
    1. I never said race was not an issue in this country or in this election. As I said, I think this is obvious. Class, sex, race, sexual orientation, and any other distinction of identity will continue to be issues as long as we represent a diverse mixture of people.

    2. White people may vote for Obama because he's a good candidate and black, but I don't think you can say white people would just vote for any black candidate (Jesse Jackson in the 1980's) or that white people may vote for him simply because he is black. That's pretty ridiculous. At most, Barack has an advantage in that he is the first black candidate many white people can feel comfortable voting for (ie. he's like them), which is why people keep tossing around this idea that Obama is a transcendent candidate who transcends the normal racial divide.

    Shouldn't white and black candidates both try to appeal to voters outside their race? I welcome the day when such issues of race are acknowledged and yet set aside for more important considerations.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #52
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Is it a reaction to how bad of a president Bush has been?
    Hmm. How would one phrase this?

    Fuck.
    Yes.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Wow....

    Obama has sooo many socialist, communist, and marxist associations he's tried to hide. To see that crap is irrelevant is nuts. If it were only one person with a loose connection to Obama, I'd say it was somewhat irrelevant too, just as I did when reports like this started to roll out early in the race. However, as time went on a very definite pattern of Obama associating with extreme people like that has shown itself, and it goes far away from irrelevance.
    +1

    He's made a habit of associating with people that I vehemently oppose, ideologically.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #54
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Wow....

    Obama has sooo many socialist, communist, and marxist associations he's tried to hide. To see that crap is irrelevant is nuts. If it were only one person with a loose connection to Obama, I'd say it was somewhat irrelevant too, just as I did when reports like this started to roll out early in the race. However, as time went on a very definite pattern of Obama associating with extreme people like that has shown itself, and it goes far away from irrelevance.
    sorry, but you're sounding a bit like Rush Limbaugh there- a bit too out there in your accusations If something as terrible as you're suggesting really did happen, we'd know about it- the press seems to love getting ahold of something sensational.

    and are you forgetting that Ronald Reagan sent the Ayatollah a birthday cake?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #55
    / booyalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Seeing as how the city of Chicago named Ayers man of the year in 1997, I don't think he's such a radical these days.
    Yeah, and we all know how unromantic and representative of common opinion "man of the year" designations are.
    I don't wanna!

  6. #56
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    So? Do you believe that we are suddenly going to hear all about her, and when we do, we'll all just love her? People know enough.
    No, of course not. I just said she won't make that much of a difference either way.

    No. Recent polling has found she's now more of a liability than an aid, and she's a heavy liability among moderates, which are the people that will make this election.
    Do you have any links you can point me to for that?


    Wrong again. That's exactly what happened. Just look at the Katie Couric interview for instance. That had people everywhere cringe, and caused a wave of second guesses.
    I think you are exaggerating here.


    So in otherwords, you are just denouncing the entire practice of polling?
    Not entirely, but I think there is way too much attention given to them, and way too much room for media manipulation. For instance, ABC News has been using polls that sample significantly more self-identified democrats than republicans. What is the purpose of using a poll like that if not to try to manipulate McCain supporters into thinking it's a lost cause?


    Indeed, the popular vote is meaningless. But as for the electoral vote, Obama is winning hard right now. the only thing Obama needs to win, are all the the states Kerry had, + New Mexico, Iowa, and Colorado. Well, in all of Kerry's states, as well as New Mexico and Iowa, Obama has more than a leaning lead. So all he needs is Colorado. That being said, he has slight leads in Florida, Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, Missouri, an increasingly substantial lead in Virginia, and serious competition in North Carolina, Indiana, and West Virginia. A lot of those states are worth so much, that Obama could afford to lose New Mexico and Colorada if he took one of them. Just one. So let's say that they were all 50/50, just for McCain's sake. What do you think the odds are that they will all go for McCain? Because right now, if every contested state when to McCain (this includes Colorado, which many organizations no longer consider contested) McCain would only barely win. That's how bad it is for him right now. He has to change that in about two weeks, with no major campaign event left on the schedule. Never mind the fact that the environment is stacked against him. Do you reasonably think McCain win, short of an incredibly lucky break?
    Once again, you're overstating things. If you've got specific polls you want to discuss, we can do that, but going by what CNN has on their website., there are still way too many states that are up in the air to declare McCain being some huge longshot at this point. And there are more undecided voters still at this point than there were 4 years ago or even 8 years ago.
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  7. #57
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I find that all politicians work with various shady characters to varrying degrees. It would not make Obama exceptional. It wouldn't even make me automatically disturbed. There very well could be bad reasons behind it, but it could also be pragmatism, which is a good things.

    Finally, I beckon socialism, so if Obama were really such a socialist, that just means things are better than I'd thought.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #58
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    For the record, I get most of my polls from RealClearPolitics averaged poll of polls, which takes the results of things like Zogby, Gallup, Rasmussen, etc.. and determines what the average result of all of these is.

    So, help yourself.
    RealClearPolitics - RealClearPolitics Poll Averages


    EDIT: Jesus! Obama is behind but within striking distance in North Dakota now! Yeah, McCain is hurting.

    Just for giggles, I always like this map. This is what would happen if every state went to the candidate that it is slightly leaning toward right now. RealClearPolitics - Electoral Map
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #59
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    It kind of cracks me up to hear people talking about how socialist Obama is when John McCain is going on and on about the government buying up all the bad mortgages.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    sorry, but you're sounding a bit like Rush Limbaugh there- a bit too out there in your accusations If something as terrible as you're suggesting really did happen, we'd know about it- the press seems to love getting ahold of something sensational.

    and are you forgetting that Ronald Reagan sent the Ayatollah a birthday cake?
    Are you kidding me?!

    No really, I'm sure that was a joke.

    The mainstream media has been on Obama's NUTSACK since the day he was freaking born (in Kenya)! They have held off sooo much about Obama, because they have ALWAYS been supporters of the left, and I believe they above any normal citizen suffer from the "root for the black guy because we feel good doing it" syndrome. They have had a love for Obama and his ideologies since day one, and wouldn't shatter that for the world. The only reason they came out with all that info about his pastor was because there was the equal pressure from Clinton's camp. But now that the left has their candidate, the mainstream media hasn't and wont say a damn thing to tarnish his image. They will wail on the republicans and the V.P. candidate Sarah Palin with their many lies and smears, but you will NEVER see them behave that way toward one of their own. Get real...

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