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  1. #131
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Seeing as how the city of Chicago named Ayers man of the year in 1997, I don't think he's such a radical these days.
    He's also an unrepentent former domestic terrorist. Would you be this forgiving of someone who bombed Black churches and explicitly denied that he was sorry about it? Hell, I'll even change that to bombing Nation of Islam mosques and add that nobody happened to die, just in case someone thinks that that his opposition to the Vietnam War and the lack of fatalities are relevent factors to consider when judging his actions. If you think that Obama's association with him (they were much less than pals, far more than casual aquaintances) is not significant enough to affect your vote, then fine, but that's no reason to excuse Bill Ayers himself.

  2. #132
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    A. Obama could not run for president if born in Kenya- EVERYONE knows that- he was born in Hawaii from a Kenyan father and a white, Iowan mother
    Yes, he could. One of his parents was an American citizen, so he qualifies as a "natural-born citizen" of the United States. I assume he as also been a resident of the United States for the necessary amount of time. Anything he is hiding about his birth records is related to potential political liabilites, not disqualifications from office.

  3. #133
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Yes, he could. One of his parents was an American citizen, so he qualifies as a "natural-born citizen" of the United States. I assume he as also been a resident of the United States for the necessary amount of time. Anything he is hiding about his birth records is related to potential political liabilites, not disqualifications from office.
    Yes, exactly.


    Constitutional Topic: Citizenship - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
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  4. #134
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    I believe the issue of being a natural born citizen if born in another country to parents who are citizens on America has an age prerequisite on the parent. They have to be 19 years or older. She was 18 when she gave birth to Obama, so if she was in Kenya, that would screw with his citizenship. Then there's the issue of whether or not he was adopted by his father's side of the family he was living in Indonesia. This guy's history growing up is seriously all over the place even without the Kenya possibility. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if he is hiding such facts that would disqualify him.

    *And btw, if I'm wrong on the age limit please point it out.

  5. #135
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    He's also an unrepentent former domestic terrorist. Would you be this forgiving of someone who bombed Black churches and explicitly denied that he was sorry about it? Hell, I'll even change that to bombing Nation of Islam mosques and add that nobody happened to die, just in case someone thinks that that his opposition to the Vietnam War and the lack of fatalities are relevent factors to consider when judging his actions. If you think that Obama's association with him (they were much less than pals, far more than casual aquaintances) is not significant enough to affect your vote, then fine, but that's no reason to excuse Bill Ayers himself.
    While I do not approve of Bill Ayers actions during the Vietnam war, I wonder what can be said of him that cannot also be said of G. Gordon Liddy, except that he was a more competent terrorist and avoided jail time.

    Neither can hold a candle to the Contras, though, and McCain was a big fan of theirs. Do they not count as "terrorists"?
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    While I do not approve of Bill Ayers actions during the Vietnam war, I wonder what can be said of him that cannot also be said of G. Gordon Liddy, except that he was a more competent terrorist and avoided jail time.

    Neither can hold a candle to the Contras, though, and McCain was a big fan of theirs. Do they not count as "terrorists"?
    Ooh! Didn't think I'd see one of these. A non hypocritical counter argument. Bravo! I hadn't actually heard of that, thanks for bringing it up (I'm not being sarcastic).

  7. #137
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Good lord, would you people hurry up and vote already?


    I wonder what Hunter S. Thompson would've had to say about this campaign. It might've actually made it interesting.

  8. #138
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    While I do not approve of Bill Ayers actions during the Vietnam war, I wonder what can be said of him that cannot also be said of G. Gordon Liddy, except that he was a more competent terrorist and avoided jail time.

    Neither can hold a candle to the Contras, though, and McCain was a big fan of theirs. Do they not count as "terrorists"?
    The Contras and the Sandinistas were both awful terrorists.
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  9. #139
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    While I do not approve of Bill Ayers actions during the Vietnam war, I wonder what can be said of him that cannot also be said of G. Gordon Liddy, except that he was a more competent terrorist and avoided jail time.

    Neither can hold a candle to the Contras, though, and McCain was a big fan of theirs. Do they not count as "terrorists"?
    Calling G. Gordon Liddy a terrorist is a stretch (if some of his more outlandish plots had been implemented, that would be a different story), the man was a political criminal (not to be confused with a political prisoner). I admit he is a figure I hate to hate, as he is bombastic and entertaining-I especially enjoyed his appearance on the Bill Mahr show, where he said something along the lines of, "I would like to have something explained to me...I am a blah blah blah, I did this this and this-I am unrepentent for it-an HE (points to Marilyn Manson) is supposed to be the bad guy!?"

    As for the Contras, they were an anti-communist guerilla movement operating in a landscape where peaceful political change and organization was an impossibility (unlike the United States in the late sixties and early seventies). Such a movement is certain to attract barbaric elements as well as genuine freedom fighters. If I was in a communist country with an overall opposition movement like the Contras, I would support them-communism IS that terrible. If I was not an ignorant child at the time, I would also have advocated American support for the Contras, as they were battling an enemy government that occuppied a strategically important land area and were allied with a communist country that posed a serious threat to both the United States and the universal principles upon which it is based (if you wanted to bring up Cold War alliances I would consider sufficiently morally problematic to second-guess, go to El Salvador or Guatemala instead).

  10. #140
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    The Sandinistas deserved to be taken out by any means necessary, but the Contras didn't reserve their brutality for the tyrants in government. Many women, children, old people, and members of the clergy died at the hands of both of those groups.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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