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  1. #1
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Default Is Obama the next FDR?

    FDR lovers, FDR haters, what are your thoughts? We're looking at a political climate that's uncannily similar to the one that brought in Franklin Roosevelt. The question is, will Obama himself be uncannily similar to Roosevelt?

    Give your reasons for your opinion.
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  2. #2
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    No. There will never be another FDR. No one can be elected four times or even three times. And the changes he made to federal government in his long time in office aren't repeatable. Now there could possibly be an anti-FDR, who actually took major steps to reign in the size and scope of the federal government. But I highly doubt that person will ever be elected, because there are too many people who want to send their money off to the great monolith in DC and then ask them to solve all their problems.
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    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    So we going to war against an axis of China, Russia, and India then?

    And no, there are major differences. However, Obama has an opportunity to make his own name...if he gets elected ( I completely agree with him about his supporters getting over cocky...not saying you directly, but in general, and that he still needs to get elected)

    Now we have that out of the way, my opinion is a possible Jimmy Carter due to Nancy Pelosi. The president doesn't craft laws remember. He is a cheer leader, a commander and chief, and executor of the laws. He can set "policy" in the way of guidelines, but Congress still writes it and votes on it, and with her around, I have serious issues about many things. I think that is my current biggest beef in voting for Obama is that Pelosi is his "lawmaker." Course with McCain it would be butt heads! But in her case, maybe that is a good thing.

  4. #4
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    FDR lovers, FDR haters, what are your thoughts? We're looking at a political climate that's uncannily similar to the one that brought in Franklin Roosevelt. The question is, will Obama himself be uncannily similar to Roosevelt?

    Give your reasons for your opinion.
    1) God, I hope not;

    2) I seriously doubt it. We were not at war in 1932. There was no two-term limit for POTUS. Employment is not at 20+%. Obama (most likely) will not be able to name a large number of Supreme Court justices. And despite the current wave of anti-corporate rhetoric, the American public is a lot less enamored with actually socialistic economic policy. I also don't think he is quite as far to the left as he it seems. He is doing what successful politicians do: pandering.
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  5. #5
    Sniffles
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    I believe he tries to paint himself as a latter-day JFK. I've noticed his wife probably has this conception as well, since she's adopted the typical '60s appearance, making her look like she was part the Supremes.

    Ive already mentioned here plenty of times that much of the "change" Obama proposes is simply the continuation of the welfare-state system that originated under FDR. But then again FDR was following in the footsteps of the managerialism that was important to the Progressive ideology of TR.

    So is Obama a latter-day FDR? Maybe, but then again almost all our Presidents since FDR have walked in his shadow.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    He could end up having the same effect on my paycheck. Thanks to FDR, every year I lose 12.5% of my income to Social Security. If Obama is elected, it's likely I'm going to lose another 10-20% to cover the cost of his health care plan. I will get a negative return on both of those 'investments'.

    Thanks, FDR, for stealing money out of my pocket from beyond the grave. And thank you, Obama, for your promises to steal more money out of my pocket in the future.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #7
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Well, it probably comes as no surprise that I'm a fan of FDR's economics policies, and I'd love to see a reincarnation of that, but I'm not an optimist.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    1) God, I hope not;
    One way or another, I suspect you'll dislike the two of them for similar reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    2) I seriously doubt it. We were not at war in 1932.
    I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make. Obama's probably going to try and get out of Iraq as smoothly and quickly as he can, and if he's paying attention, he'll probably take an increasingly subtle approach to Afghanistan.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    There was no two-term limit for POTUS.
    True, but then much of FDR's biggest economic policies came from his first four years.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Employment is not at 20+%.
    True, but we're looking at another kind of economic crisis. I certainly think the worst is yet to come, even if it's not going to cause massive unemployment.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Obama (most likely) will not be able to name a large number of Supreme Court justices.
    Hmmm, a lot of them are getting old, actually. The justice issue is one of the main things that makes this election important.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    And despite the current wave of anti-corporate rhetoric, the American public is a lot less enamored with actually socialistic economic policy. I also don't think he is quite as far to the left as he it seems. He is doing what successful politicians do: pandering.
    First of all, I think people fear the word Socialism more than they fear Socialist policies. I don't think most of them can even explain what a Socialist policy actually is. They just know that it's supposed to be something bad.

    Secondly, people were really in love with the private sector in the 20s. They really believed in all that bullshit about rising up and succeeding if you try hard enough, and wanted the government to stay out of things, etc... It was actually very similar to the trend that was started by Reagan in the 80s (with the help of anti-Carter sentiments, of course). But when the depression came, people were badly disillusioned, and FDR and his Socialist policies were very, very popular. I don't know where Obama stands, but think if someone did try to be like FDR right now, they'd have a lot of success.

    I agree though, that it's really questionable that Obama is as leftist as people are trying to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I believe he tries to paint himself as a latter-day JFK. I've noticed his wife probably has this conception as well, since she's adopted the typical '60s appearance, making her look like she was part the Supremes.
    Indeed, he started this off with a Kennedy style, and I've heard plenty of people say that before, but the situation is changing. The current crisis is more politically helpful to someone like Roosevelt, and Obama has been increasingly swinging his proposals in that direction, which has been coinciding with soaring support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ive already mentioned here plenty of times that much of the "change" Obama proposes is simply the continuation of the welfare-state system that originated under FDR. But then again FDR was following in the footsteps of the managerialism that was important to the Progressive ideology of TR.

    So is Obama a latter-day FDR? Maybe, but then again almost all our Presidents since FDR have walked in his shadow.
    They have all been in his shadow, but that does not mean that all wanted to be like him, or liked the things he left behind.
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  8. #8
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Cool, lots of good points by everyone. I was afraid this would turn into a "I hate/love FDR" match, but people are going through and discussing policies and context. Good.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #9
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    But when the depression came, people were badly disillusioned, and FDR and his Socialist policies were very, very popular.
    First, FDR was not a socialist. Second, there was plenty of popular opposition to many of his policies: particularly the supporters of Huey P. Long and Fr. Charles Coughlin. The Communist Party was at its heights during this period as well, as were the Fascist Silvershirts.

    FDR even adopted some of his policies in order to sway people away from supporting these people and groups.

    The current crisis is more politically helpful to someone like Roosevelt, and Obama has been increasingly swinging his proposals in that direction, which has been coinciding with soaring support.
    Yeah but the basic system we have already in place is the one Roosevelt created. So perhaps the real issue at hand is the ultimate failure of that system? Much like how the Soviet system ultimately failed, despite its great successes in the 30's. The USSR was seen as a great model for success in the 1930's; and as one journalist famously remarked upon visiting there, "I have seen the future, and it works."

    I could also mention the numerous celebrities who were enthusiastic for the Soviet experiment as well: including GB Shaw and HG Wells. The former insisted that Ukrainians were not really starving, and the latter recounted about what such a fine fellow Stalin was. Roosevelt also was very naive in his relations to Stalin, which I mentioned in another thread.


    They have all been in his shadow, but that does not mean that all wanted to be like him, or liked the things he left behind.
    I protest that you falsely attributed my argument to pure_mecury. Second, that's all quite irrelevant. It's still the same system we're living under, so you're just hair-splitting.

    That's like me making the same argument concerning the differences between the Soviet system under Brezhnev to what it was under Stalin.

    Although the question does become whether or not an American perestroika under Obama will really work. You seem to assume that it will.

  10. #10
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    First, FDR was not a socialist. Second, there was plenty of popular opposition to many of his policies: particularly the supporters of Huey P. Long and Fr. Charles Coughlin. The Communist Party was at its heights during this period as well, as were the Fascist Silvershirts.
    His policies were more Socialist overall than most presidents, which is why I didn't call hima Socialist, I was refering to some of the policies he pushed.

    The opposition to these policies came from specific politically minded factions, they did not represent the country well enough to keep FDR from winning in a landslide, even before the war was an issue. It's kjind of like Eisenhower said, the people who attempt to change FDR's new deal policies will never succeed, because they are immensely popular, and anyone who tries is, he did in fact say, "stupid".

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    FDR even adopted some of his policies in order to sway people away from supporting these people and groups.
    Sure, so did Bismarck, but doing so effectively made Bismarck one of the most substantial figures in the history of state Socialism. The reason why the policies were adopted don't really matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yeah but the basic system we have already in place is the one Roosevelt created. So perhaps the real issue at hand is the ultimate failure of that system? Much like how the Soviet system ultimately failed, despite its great successes in the 30's.
    Maybe the blame falls on those failed attempts to change it. That's a very complicated debate, and it's not really important to this topic. I'm not asking if Roosevelt was good, this was about comparing the present/future with the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I protest that you falsely attributed my argument to pure_mecury. Second, that's all quite irrelevant. It's still the same system we're living under, so you're just hair-splitting.
    That was purely accidental, and I have corrected it. And no, we are not necessarily living under the same system, certainly not in entirety. Try to say that we either are or aren't under a particular system is arbitrarily defined by your scope. Things under Reagan were obviously not just like things under FDR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's like me making the same argument concerning the differences between the Soviet system under Brezhnev to what it was under Stalin.
    They were different, in notable ways, and they were probably less different than our changes have been.

    The problem with idealists (which I assume you are) is that you don't have a realistic amount of patience, or enough appreciation of details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Although the question does become whether or not an American perestroika under Obama will really work. You seem to assume that it will.
    I don't know what his abilities are. I think it would be right to make policies in the same direction that FDR did, though, if he can implement them.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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