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  1. #1
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Default Voter fraud! Or is it?

    So, anyone actually remember this whole department of justice firing scandal?

    Anyone recall allegations of voter fraud running rampant just before the last several major elections, causing a tightening of registration restrictions that left a massive chunk of folks feeling like they'd been cheated?

    Guess what? They're connected!

    The guys fired from the DOJ were told to investigate democrats for voter fraud. They refused...because their GOP bosses were trying to cheat. What they had evidence of was Voter registration fraud. People registering the name of Donald Duck and such. BUT...this is not the same as showing up on Super Tuesday, insisting your name is Donald Duck and you live at 123 Fake St., and actually casting a vote.

    Who is the victem of this Voter Registration Fraud? ACORN is. They pay people to go out and register people...the lowest end folks are stealing from ACORN by registering fake people. This has happened SINCE ACORN CAME INTO EXISTANCE. It MUST happen, if you think about their model. They're just begging to be exploited this way. They even KNOW IT ALREADY, and have systems in place to flag obviously craptastic registration forms.

    But those fake people? They never cast votes.

    The GOP is trying this AGAIN in this election but apparently Obama's camp was ready for it this time. Ohio's Supreme Court shot down their attempt to tighten voting restrictions, which would have taken away 100,000+ voters ballots, and the citizens would not have known it until they showed up to vote and were refused.

    Almost all of them, coincidently, would be voting Democratic tickets.

    So, put simply...

    1. GOP points out the exact same ripping off of ACORN that has gone on since they were founded
    2. GOP then passes off this voter registration fraud... which again only victimizes ACORN itself and results in no actual voter fraud...passes it off as actual voter fraud.
    3. Investigations are launched against Democratic candidates mere weeks or days before an election...any fool knows such an investigation, regardless of outcome, is typically a death knell for a campaign
    4. GOP simultaneously insists on tightening restrictions on the process, eliminating hundreds of thousands of democratic votes with one stroke
    5. Afterwards people feel like somehow some sort of fraud must have happened, like the election was stolen...but all investigations reveal nothing, because they're digging in the wrong place.

    Very clever. Unfortunately for GOP, the Obama campaign is now flipping it over on them -before- the election, rather than waiting until it's a done deal and moaning about it.

    Anyone in the McCain camp want to comment on this? I'd love to hear a spin on this that makes it all okay.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  2. #2
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    Anyone in the McCain camp want to comment on this? I'd love to hear a spin on this that makes it all okay.
    They seem slow to answer, so maybe we could make some guesses. Perhaps their rationale is that Democrats have the unfair advantage of poor people, and since poor people don't know what's really good for them, their votes should clearly not count.

  3. #3
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Ohio's Supreme Court shot down their attempt to tighten voting restrictions, which would have taken away 100,000+ voters ballots, and the citizens would not have known it until they showed up to vote and were refused.
    Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I just don't see how ANYONE that's a legit registered voter from ANY party would be denied the right to vote ever. If I went to the ballot box, and they were like "Sorry Mr. Kyuuei, you're lame and we're trying to restrict our voting here in Cool Place." my foot would be so far up their ass the sweat on my knee would quench their thirst. Not to mention I'd be calling the news stations and a judge and my lawyer and the national guard and Jesse Jackson.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I just don't see how ANYONE that's a legit registered voter from ANY party would be denied the right to vote ever.
    I'll quote Gomez Adams, as it seems like that kinda day: "Dirty pool, old man!"

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    If I went to the ballot box, and they were like "Sorry Mr. Kyuuei, you're lame and we're trying to restrict our voting here in Cool Place." my foot would be so far up their ass the sweat on my knee would quench their thirst.
    And be arrested for interfering with the voting process by causing a disruption in the polling place. Insidious, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Not to mention I'd be calling the news stations and a judge and my lawyer and the national guard and Jesse Jackson.
    They did. For the last three major elections people have been screaming about how they were disenfranchised and unfairly tossed out on their ears. How their votes should have counted, but didn't. Everybody responded by investigation, which uncovered nothing, then they rolled their eyes, called them all reactionary freako poor people who probably forgot to register, and forgot about it.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  5. #5
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    I'll quote Gomez Adams, as it seems like that kinda day: "Dirty pool, old man!"



    And be arrested for interfering with the voting process by causing a disruption in the polling place. Insidious, no?



    They did. For the last three major elections people have been screaming about how they were disenfranchised and unfairly tossed out on their ears. How their votes should have counted, but didn't. Everybody responded by investigation, which uncovered nothing, then they rolled their eyes, called them all reactionary freako poor people who probably forgot to register, and forgot about it.
    1. I Gomez Addams!
    2. If that ever happened, I would make that my proud first arrest.
    3. Mayhap extremely idealist of me.. but I'd like to think that if it's my right to vote, and some douche doesn't allow me this, that I will find a way to rectify the situation. In the end, I'm in the right, so my arrest would need compensation, and I probably wouldn't let something so extremely wrong just be blown off as "forgetting to register" in the end. There would be no end until I was allowed to have my vote count. I wouldn't allow anyone to forget.
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  6. #6
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    There have been numerous cases of actual voter fraud. I live in Philadelphia, and we have a sordid history of illegal and/or nonexistent voters. This issue is clearly partisan, though. Democrats love to get fraudulent votes and voters; Republicans love to toss out votes and/or make it more difficult to vote.

    My own view is that it SHOULD be somewhat difficult to vote, but that we also need to investigate actual voter suppression (i.e., intimidating people at the polls, which does happen) and fraud much more vigorously. It's disgusting that people who are not registered to vote sometimes do, and that people pick up homeless people and drug addicts and pay them with money or cigarettes to vote a certain way. I think showing some form of ID is probably a good idea, unless it is demonstrable that you can't get one.
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  7. #7
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Right. I know the issue of fraud voting exists.. but denying legit voters >.o I just can't imagine it. Difficult to vote < Not being allowed to vote.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  8. #8
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    I saw a statistic somewhere that an American citizen is more likely to be hit by lightning than commit voter fraud. For all of the outcry about it, I really just don't see the problem anywhere. Certainly not as much of a problem as is created in the republican "fix".

    Also for the record, paying bums with booze and cigarettes is different than paying the wealthy with tax cuts...how, exactly? Aside from being far less expensive to Joe the Plumber, in the end?
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  9. #9
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    I saw a statistic somewhere that an American citizen is more likely to be hit by lightning than commit voter fraud. For all of the outcry about it, I really just don't see the problem anywhere. Certainly not as much of a problem as is created in the republican "fix".
    Lightning strikes are accidents of nature. Voter fraud is willful lawbreaking. Surely, we can do sometime about the latter.


    Also for the record, paying bums with booze and cigarettes is different than paying the wealthy with tax cuts...how, exactly? Aside from being far less expensive to Joe the Plumber, in the end?
    Gee, I don't know; maybe one is a legitimate policy point, and the other is a crime? We're not talking about a campaign providing a van to get poor voters to the polls on time; we're talking about a direct payment or gift of a valuable in exchange for voting or registering to vote.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Lightning strikes are accidents of nature. Voter fraud is willful lawbreaking. Surely, we can do sometime about the latter.
    Agreed. But surely stopping 1000 people from voting fraudulently is not worth stopping 10,000 legitimate voters from voting? That's what they're trying to do. (the lightning was talking about the lack of actual voter fraud in the country, btw, just a statistical comparison)


    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Gee, I don't know; maybe one is a legitimate policy point, and the other is a crime? We're not talking about a campaign providing a van to get poor voters to the polls on time; we're talking about a direct payment or gift of a valuable in exchange for voting or registering to vote.
    Yeah I know. I just find it ironic as hell is all. Maybe they should keep it legal, by promising to pass a law that anyone without a home can receive a voucher for one pack of cigarettes and one bottle of run? Still sounds less costly in the long run. They'd probably not bother voting and still cash in the vouchers, though. Back to the drawing board I guess.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

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