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  1. #1
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Default Call me nave, but...

    Why would somebody who hates America run for president?

    Now, I suppose the obvious answer would be, "Why, to take down the country from the inside, of course!"

    I guess this is the implied answer from the Republican party, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

    I mean, that's the kind of stuff that only works in movies, but would fail miserably in real life. I mean, consider what a gauntlet it is to run for president in the United States! It's a ridiculous amount of work for even somebody who does love the United States -- the awful hours, the fundraising, the debates, and the speeches, the speeches, the speeches! And even at that point, it's typically a close race, so there's no guarantee that all that time and money and energy expended on an 'evil plan' would even come to fruition.

    It makes no sense to put all of your eggs in a basket like that when there would be so many much easier ways to take down the country that wouldn't take nearly as much work and money. And considering all the policy gridlock in the United States, the position would be virtually meaningless for anyone who wanted to do anything very radical. The only uninhibited power that I can see that would be meaningful in this position would be the power to pardon, but even then you'd have to wait until after whatever deed was done by someone else for that to be very useful, and that doesn't stop people from harassing and even murdering whoever was pardoned if a group of people were angry enough. It would be illegal, of course, but there would be nobody stopping them, really.

    And then there's the strain in general that comes with the pursuit of the presidency would make me think that there would have to be an attracting force to the position. The worst I could see is somebody of a megalomaniacal bent being glib enough to achieve the position for the money and power, but in that case the person wouldn't really hate the place, they'd just want to exploit it. I couldn't really imagine somebody doing it because they hated the place and wanted to just plain destroy it. There's not enough of an attracting force, and there would be easier ways to do it.

    So is there something I'm missing here, or is the idea that a presidential candidate would 'hate America' really that dumb? Is anybody really fooling anybody with this stuff?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #2
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    I think it's more a case of Obama (as if you weren't referring to him...) accepts the typical leftists ideology that includes a despise toward capitalism, and the principles and fundamentals this country was originally founded upon; or what hasn't yet been eroded away. Considering Obama is an outright socialist, it is understandable that he has quite a few problems with how America is today, along with Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, and even Ahmadinejad. It may not be accurate to say he hates the country on the whole, but that he hates how far from socialism and liberal values it currently is. Rest assured, he and the "angry left" should be quite happy should Obama be elected and the democrats have unprecedented numbers in the white house. It will be the perfect opportunity for them to mold America the way they've always dreamed.

    Hope you're up for the ride, Haphazard.

  3. #3
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Considering Obama is an outright socialist...
    Hardly


    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    along with Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro
    Obama is scarcely like them, in policy, ideology, or mentality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    and even Ahmadinejad.

    He doesn't even have to do with Socialism. Or are you connecting Muslim sounding names?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    It may not be accurate to say he hates the country on the whole, but that he hates how far from socialism and liberal values it currently is.
    Socialism and liberalism are not mutual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Rest assured, he and the "angry left" should be quite happy should Obama be elected and the democrats have unprecedented numbers in the white house. It will be the perfect opportunity for them to mold America the way they've always dreamed.
    The parties shift so much over time that what the Democrats want now doesn't even look like what the Democrats wanted 30 years ago. There's hardly any vision that has always been dreamt of.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Hardly

    Obama is scarcely like them, in policy, ideology, or mentality.


    He doesn't even have to do with Socialism. Or are you connecting Muslim sounding names?


    Socialism and liberalism are not mutual.

    The parties shift so much over time that what the Democrats want now doesn't even look like what the Democrats wanted 30 years ago. There's hardly any vision that has always been dreamt of.
    Of course there is a vision. It is the vision that INDIVIDUALS like Obama, who gravitate to the left like flies to s***, hold. It may not be representative of the party as a whole, but it sure as heck is representative of the current generation of liberal politicians in the white house.

    I didn't compare Obama to Chavez and the like. What I meant was that these people OPENLY support an Obama presidency for obvious reasons, and will probably dance and sing when he gets elected just as they did when Bush enacted his socialist fascist bailout plan. When socialists, communists, and other dictators praise someone, it makes me weary of the said person... *big efing super massive black hole sized understatement*

    If you doubt he's socialist you have not looked at his proposed policies, you have not looked at his history, you have not looked at the people he follows and associates with, and you do not even know what socialism is.

  5. #5
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Sigh.

    I see that people are already too blinded by the politics to just see the stupidity of the argument.

    I'm less naive to think that somebody who 'hates America' would run for president than to think that this thread would quickly dissolve into partisan arguments...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Sigh.

    I see that people are already too blinded by the politics to just see the stupidity of the argument.

    I'm less naive to think that somebody who 'hates America' would run for president than to think that this thread would quickly dissolve into partisan arguments...
    I just said he doesn't hate the country, and I addressed what the right typically means if they say that. He wants to change the country to fit his vision of how it should be, which is a compulsory distaste for how things are in present. This holds true for all politicians, not just Obama. They all have their own motives for seeking power, but it is more on the side of construction and love toward what they want (be it considered good or bad), rather than hate and destruction. Of course they wouldn't become president if they hated the country.

  7. #7
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I just said he doesn't hate the country, and I addressed what the right typically means if they say that. He wants to change the country to fit his vision of how it should be, which is a compulsory distaste for how things are in present. This holds true for all politicians. Of course they wouldn't become president if they hated the country.
    "I love you, you're perfect, now change!"

    It has been the ruin of many decent relationships...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #8
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Well, to stick with the OP.. You're absolutely right. To accuse anyone running for president that they hate the country is absurd. The reason WHY they accuse though, is because the changes that one person thinks is best for the country, another thinks will degrade it. The debate on whats patriotic, what will fix our country, and the steps needed to do so, are widely debated..

    In essense though, being the idealist I am.. I can't help but think that someone has to REALLY love their country to want to try and help run it. How they love though may be different, or even corrupted, throughout time and experience.
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    They are trying to get the ignorant people to believe anything they hear without really thinking of it...

    I can't think of anyone that is 100% happy with the way the country is going. I would hate to see the day when expressing this makes you un-American.

  10. #10
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iluvstellacat View Post
    They are trying to get the ignorant people to believe anything they hear without really thinking of it...

    I can't think of anyone that is 100% happy with the way the country is going. I would hate to see the day when expressing this makes you un-American.
    Right, those are the fundementals of America. To say what's on your mind, and say it in the hopes of changing the country for the better of all. Debates only arise in the contents of the debates.
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