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  1. #31
    perdu fleur par bologne Martoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Yup... "The security officer that's looking at it is located away from the screening lane, so there's no comparison of the person walking through and the image. The images are not saved, you literally walk through, the screener hits a button to say clear and the image goes."

    Apparently itll be one person, alone in a room, watching scans of nekky people...


    I don't like it one bit.
    It never explicitly said they'll be alone. You could have any number of people watching your nekky scans, if that makes you feel any better.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    There's the bottom line (no pun intended).

    Aren't we still human? Don't we still have dignity?
    I don't know that this will really reduce the likelihood of me being the terrorist fodder du jour (as unlikely as that is in the first place), but for the sake of discussion, let's say it does. No one has to fly on a plane. It's entirely up to you whether it's worth it or not. If you present a potential risk to other people, getting checked to reduce that risk is part of the cost of flying. It's your call.

    If it weren't for the risk to people not on the plane, liability tangles, etc., it would be interesting if they had secure and nonsecure flights, and just let people decide for themselves which kind of flight they want to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I'm sure anything slightly interesting about the job will be annihilated after the first 1000 people amble through.
    Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Unless someone had some kind of really weird fetish, I'd think that the kind of images you see in an x-ray scan wouldn't mean much, and they'd pretty quickly stop seeing them as people, even. I guess someone could have a fetish like that. Someone could also have a fetish for noses, or something, in which case you're violated every time they see you without your face covered.

    (btw, heart, the thread title kills me.)
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  2. #32
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    If we start giving up our privacy rights because we are afraid, the terrorist already won.
    I feel that saying that is like saying "If we boost our homeland security, than the foreigners have already won." It's not that we're afraid, it's that we are less willing to let anyone take advantage of our system.. People mistake kindness for weakness, so now people are being less kind. It sucks in turn for the normal average joe, but if I know that everyone had to go through the same crappy procedure I did, I don't feel uncomfortable or violated at all.
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  3. #33
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think it's much more private-feeling for a same-gender person to look at a vague biology-textbook-x-ray of my body than for the same-gender to touch me in any way.
    I could be mistaken but I dont believe they are planning on having a separate x-rays for different genders.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I've had to shower in cold water in front of 60 stranger females before.. NOT COOL or comfortable.
    I've had to do that with the Army too and didn't like it but I accepted it. In that environment it was something that was needed and the people present were in the same situation as me and discretion was respected.

    I feel the same about this, if it is required so be it but I don't like it and I'd rather not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martoon View Post
    It never explicitly said they'll be alone. You could have any number of people watching your nekky scans, if that makes you feel any better.
    Thanks

    Its been reported here that it would be one Security Officer alone in the room but thanks for trying to reassure me

  4. #34
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I feel that saying that is like saying "If we boost our homeland security, than the foreigners have already won." It's not that we're afraid, it's that we are less willing to let anyone take advantage of our system.. People mistake kindness for weakness, so now people are being less kind. It sucks in turn for the normal average joe, but if I know that everyone had to go through the same crappy procedure I did, I don't feel uncomfortable or violated at all.
    That's not what I said at all. I said giving up privacy rights. All the shoring up of security in the world is fine and good, until it starts eroding rights.

    Also people are so frightened of terrorists that they will literally let themselves be stripped of their rights but they never give one moment's thought to where their plane was overhauled and if it is safe to fly on.

    The Associated Press: FAA faulted for laxness on maintenance outsourcing

    FAA faulted for laxness on maintenance outsourcing
    By JOAN LOWY Oct 4, 2008

    WASHINGTON (AP) Nine U.S. airlines outsourced more than 70 percent of their major aircraft maintenance last year, and federal aviation officials' oversight of repair facilities is lagging, according to a government report.

    One-fourth of the outsourced maintenance is being handled by contractors overseas.

    The Transportation Department's inspector general said the outsourcing, which has more than doubled in four years, was of concern because the Federal Aviation Administration has failed to closely track how much maintenance is farmed out and where it is performed.

    Although the FAA has taken steps to improve, "the agency still faces challenges in determining where the most critical maintenance occurs and ensuring sufficient oversight," investigators said in the report issued this week.

    In their effort to lower costs, the report said, airlines continue to shift their heavy airframe maintenance from their own in-house mechanics and engineers to hundreds of repair companies in the United States, Canada, Mexico and countries in Central America and Asia.

    Nine major airlines examined by the inspector general outsourced 71 percent of their heavy air frame maintenance repairs and servicing to an aircraft's body, wings and tail in 2007, up from 34 percent in 2003. More than a quarter of that maintenance 27 percent was performed at foreign repair facilities.

    The airlines examined in the report were AirTran Airways, Alaska Airlines, America West Airlines, Continental Airlines, Delta Air Lines, JetBlue Airways, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines, and United Airlines. American Airlines, the nation's largest domestic carrier, was not included, the inspector general said, because it handles most maintenance in-house.

    The FAA relies heavily on the airlines and the repair facilities themselves to make sure outsourced repairs meet the air safety standards and requirements of the individual airlines.

    FAA requires each repair station to undergo a government inspection at least once a year, FAA spokesman Les Dorr said. The report says those inspections often are not being conducted by agency inspectors most familiar with standards and requirements of the airline whose planes are being repaired.

    As much as five years lapsed between visits to some major maintenance facilities by inspectors assigned to individual airlines. Inspectors not assigned to a specific airline may not be familiar with the special maintenance requirements of that airline's planes, which are often customized.

    The report cited a foreign facility, which repairs engines for an unidentified airline, that had not been inspected by an FAA inspector assigned to that airline in five years, a period in which the facility had repaired 39 of the air carrier's engines.

    The report recommends FAA require airlines to provide more complete information on the extent and location of outsourced repairs, ensure air carriers and repair stations are better able to spot and correct problems, and improve the documentation of inspection results.

    The FAA agreed it needs to do more. "We actually concur with all the inspector general's recommendations," Dorr said. "We have procedures in place that already address some of the recommendations, and we have some projects in progress that address others."

    One safety expert, however, said the report underscores that FAA still has a long way to go toward resolving the outsourcing issue, which has been source of controversy for the agency for several years.

    "What this report tells me is there is still a big problem with oversight the FAA is not verifying that the oversight being provided by the air carriers is doing the job it's supposed to," said John Goglia, a former member of the National Transportation Safety Board.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    I've had to do that with the Army too and didn't like it but I accepted it. In that environment it was something that was needed and the people present were in the same situation as me and discretion was respected.

    I feel the same about this, if it is required so be it but I don't like it and I'd rather not.
    Yes, military and civilian society very different. Are we all so ready to see a militarization of our civilian society?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Yes, military and civilian society very different. Are we all so ready to see a militarization of our civilian society?
    Why not?

  7. #37
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Starship troopers ftw!!

    >.> I think everyone should go through something that makes them realize how comfortable they really have life.. but those are my personal idealistic thoughts. To get back on topic, I understand what you're saying entirely.. the opinion comes down to is THIS a violation of privacy rights. I think it's not. I think it's a step in a direction better than pat-downs, which are inaccurate imo, being both the one doing them and having them done, and invasive (imo, moreso than the x-ray.)

    I see what you're saying Trinity. I don't LIKE any of that in the first place.. It's annoying and aggravating and uncomfortable. I don't even like taking my shoes off, even if they're flip flops. But I choose to fly, so I choose the measures they use. If it were a full body image, I'd be outraged. an X-ray though, I can deal with.. especially seeing the immense security flaws that I have.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

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