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  1. #51
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    I'm just glad McCain has stopped with his inane comments about The Surge and how it was his doing and how he's such a master strategerist because of it. Maybe someone told him that some of us can remember when things actually happened (namely: before the surge) that he's crediting the surge with, and to repeat it ad nauseum makes him sound more and more foolish? I honestly have difficulty telling whether he's senile or tragically ill-informed.

    Edit: Merc, what is a POTUS? I have a few thoughts, but I don't think they're correct...

    Potentially Ornery Totally Unstable Scumbag
    Person Offering Tidbits, Usually Scraps
    Positive Of Taking Ur Shit
    Persuasive Orator Tantalizing Us with Secrets
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  2. #52
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    I'm just glad McCain has stopped with his inane comments about The Surge and how it was his doing and how he's such a master strategerist because of it. Maybe someone told him that some of us can remember when things actually happened (namely: before the surge) that he's crediting the surge with, and to repeat it ad nauseum makes him sound more and more foolish? I honestly have difficulty telling whether he's senile or tragically ill-informed.

    Edit: Merc, what is a POTUS? I have a few thoughts, but I don't think they're correct...

    Potentially Ornery, Totally Unstable Scumbag
    Person Offering Tidbits, Usually Scraps
    Positive Of Taking Ur Shit
    Pretty much. The standard definition is "President of the United States," but yours are perfectly acceptable.

    P.S. I was totally against invading Iraq, but the surge did seem to help a little in what had become a disaster post-"victory."
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #53
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Personally, I'd prefer a POTUS who was visibly angry at times.
    Which is why I found the end of the debate really bizarre.

    If I were either of them, I'd be pissed off at the other guy by now.

    McCain seemed the angrier/more unsettled of the two... but he was the one at the end who volunteered a platitudes of "And it's great to be with you again. I think we've had a very healthy discussion."

    wth? It wasn't healthy at all.

    And Obama said, "Thanks to Senator McCain" and that was it. That would have been my feelings as well -- thanks for coming, but I'm tired of taking the potshots.

    Who was glossing over the anger?

    The McCain I know was full of more fire and "go to hell" attitude. I would have rather had him either say nothing (like Obama did) or even be more honest about the friction there. This whole campaign seems to have changed who he used to be.

    That job (and the campaign to get it) would piss me off to no end. Pretty much any government job would do that, and this one would be the highest-profile.
    I don't mind angry people who seem able to properly channel their anger and use it when appropriate. That's a useful skill. Throwing off random sparks and letting the anger make you mentally disjointed is another thing.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #54
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I thought Obama really seemed like an INTJ last night, particularly when negative ads came up... I laughed out loud when he made the comment about how issues were more important than either of the candidates' hurt feelings. It seemed VERY much like something that my INTJ friend would say (he is always in kind of a political struggle with his principal, who used to be my principal--and the principal is really feelings-oriented, and the INTJ will just have none of that BS).
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #55
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Pretty much. The standard definition is "President of the United States," but yours are perfectly acceptable.


    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    P.S. I was totally against invading Iraq, but the surge did seem to help a little in what had become a disaster post-"victory."
    I was in favor of smushing the Taliban, and screamed bloody murder when Bush took the army off to Iraq to finish up his daddy's pet project. Now Afghanistan is a bloody wreck, and it's beginning to look like the Taliban are kicking our ass.

    My problem with the surge "helping" is that it can't last, unless the surge stays. As soon as the cat's away, betcha money the mice will start playing again. They're still playing now, they just have to be more cautious.

    But mostly I was talking about McCain's panacea and historical revisionist attitude toward the surge. Wish I had a head for names...there was some outer-province leader who was instrumental in helping us, and McCain made the comment that it was because of the surge he was able to assist us. In reality he was assassinated mere days after the surge was complete. This sort of "wishful thinking" BS is exactly why we're still mired there in the first place, and with relatives in the military, I want nothing to do with such senility, or not bothering to understand reality, or whatever it is.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  6. #56
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I thought Obama really seemed like an INTJ last night, particularly when negative ads came up... I laughed out loud when he made the comment about how issues were more important than either of the candidates' hurt feelings. It seemed VERY much like something that my INTJ friend would say (he is always in kind of a political struggle with his principal, who used to be my principal--and the principal is really feelings-oriented, and the INTJ will just have none of that BS).
    That was so much like forum politics, it made me laugh too.

    I don't know, if you want to play in the sandbox, then you have to be prepared to take some shots. McCain knows this, and his side has been dishing stuff out for weeks/months (and Palin's been particularly bad at maintaining a degree of honor at her rallies). Even if you believe you've been wronged, most adults know that in a situation like this, lots of times people say things that are wrong or can be misconstrued, people aren't necessarily trying to be jerks, and your own perceptions can also get muddled... and so sometimes you just suck things up and move on and not try to untangle a ball of yarn that you yourself have helped to tangle.

    I have to parent kids who like to cry about how the other person hurt their feelings, when they are usually complicit in what happened, and it gets old. It gets old here too, to see the same thing playing out. I don't want to see someone crying over getting punched in the nose when they were swinging wildly themselves, I want to hear about what they are going to do to fix the problems we face in this country; if they want to be president, they need to be able to take some shots for the rest of us and not get caught up in that way of thinking.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #57
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    I was in favor of smushing the Taliban, and screamed bloody murder when Bush took the army off to Iraq to finish up his daddy's pet project. Now Afghanistan is a bloody wreck, and it's beginning to look like the Taliban are kicking our ass.
    I felt the same way. Although I thought we'd be getting sweet, sweet cheap oil out of the bargain in Iraq. WRONG!

    My problem with the surge "helping" is that it can't last, unless the surge stays. As soon as the cat's away, betcha money the mice will start playing again. They're still playing now, they just have to be more cautious.

    But mostly I was talking about McCain's panacea and historical revisionist attitude toward the surge. Wish I had a head for names...there was some outer-province leader who was instrumental in helping us, and McCain made the comment that it was because of the surge he was able to assist us. In reality he was assassinated mere days after the surge was complete. This sort of "wishful thinking" BS is exactly why we're still mired there in the first place, and with relatives in the military, I want nothing to do with such senility, or not bothering to understand reality, or whatever it is.
    When was the last military action by the U.S. that was A) necessary for our national defense; and B) organized and funded properly? Afghanistan is in the "sorta" pile, since going after bin Laden was necessary, and we started out OK in that situation, but the Iraq War took precious troops and resources away from it. Before that, when?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #58
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I felt the same way. Although I thought we'd be getting sweet, sweet cheap oil out of the bargain in Iraq. WRONG!
    Who is "we", exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    When was the last military action by the U.S. that was A) necessary for our national defense; and B) organized and funded properly? Afghanistan is in the "sorta" pile, since going after bin Laden was necessary, and we started out OK in that situation, but the Iraq War took precious troops and resources away from it. Before that, when?
    Without question, WWII. With question, Kosovo.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  9. #59
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    Who is "we", exactly?
    North Americans. If you are not one, I beg your pardon.



    Without question, WWII. With question, Kosovo.
    I have my problems with our involvement in both of those, too, although WWII was definitely necessary for Europe and Asia.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #60
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    North Americans. If you are not one, I beg your pardon.
    Redblooded. But also on the lower end of the economic scale. I hesitate whenever anyone utters a "we" that includes both myself and the oil companies, because frankly, I don't think they consider me part of "we" at all. I fully believe their profits would increase far more than my savings would.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I have my problems with our involvement in both of those, too, although WWII was definitely necessary for Europe and Asia.
    If Europe and Asia had fallen, we'd have been at the mercy of the Axis, it would only have been a matter of time. It's hard to think of tens of millions of deaths as being "an ounce of prevention", but I think the "pound of cure" had the Axis solidified their holdings would have been beyond insane.

    I said Kosovo as questionable because this is also an ounce of prevention situation...by stomping on that spark, we likely prevented a wildfire that could have disrupted Europe, which we are too closely linked to for it not to affect us negatively. Also, it would be difficult to underfund against/underestimate the Serbian military, so it's not really "well managed" as much as "not applicable for failure".
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

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