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  1. #41
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Alex Jones supports the Constitution Party candidate. And I don't know many libertarians who are conspiracy theorists. A few LP members and some older paleolibs, maybe, but the 9/11 Truther types have very little overlap with mainstream libertarians. Besides, what kind of libertarian would use "globalist" as an epithet, unless you are talking about world government?
    Jones must have had 2 or 3 pro-Ron Paul stories a day back when he was a little more relevant. I know some conspiracy theorist libertarians, one of them I'm actually scared for, he might do something stupid, but he's probably all talk.

    Anarchy and libertarianism are very welcoming to people who might be a little paranoid when it comes to government control and power.

  2. #42
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercury
    Alex Jones supports the Constitution Party candidate. And I don't know many libertarians who are conspiracy theorists. A few LP members and some older paleolibs, maybe, but the 9/11 Truther types have very little overlap with mainstream libertarians. Besides, what kind of libertarian would use "globalist" as an epithet, unless you are talking about world government?
    They were talking about global goverance.

    Alex Jones an avid Ron Paul supporter.

  3. #43
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    I think both McCain and Obama had great points. And I REALLY like McCain. I think they're both very intelligent men. But I think Obama just had BETTER points, and I think he blew this out of the water, this debate. After this debate, I'm very much an Obama supporter.

    McCain's points about Obama just being an eloquent speaker, but that what you should really do is examine his words carefully, didn't hold up, in any of the times that I saw him bring it up (like twice; I came into the debate late, though, around the question of... gee, I can't remember now. A question or two before the question about, "Why do you think your running mate is better for the job than your opponent's?" or whatever it was).

    It was a really good debate, in my mind. I really liked the questions they asked, and I think both people handled everything really well. But I think Obama just ABOVE and BEYOND, and, though people might distrust him because he seems so eloquent, there is definitely something to be said about someone who can immediately answer exactly what the question asked in terms that make good logical sense and that also take into account the feelings and needs of the American people. I think it implies something about their ability to do the job as President. I trust Obama by what comes out of his mouth, not by the way it comes out of his mouth, but, still... and, I really do think they both are good speakers (well, they were this time; this is the only debate I've really watched closely between them, so I can't anything OTHER debates). But... still, there's something to be said about Obama's composure, which to me reflects an inner wisdom, an inner acceptance of himself and of reality. Peace of mind like the kind Obama conveys to me signals to me that he is a VERY well-adjusted individual. McCain does too, but Obama even more so. I don't I'm explaining myself very well, though. Man! Whatever.

    Cool debate. Go Obama! (I've never leant strongly in the direction of either candidate; in fact, up until very recently, I didn't know who I liked better. Well, yeah I did, I liked Obama better overall, but I knew that liking didn't necessarily say anything about his capability as President. But now I know. I'm for Obama. And not just cause I like him, cause I really do like both as people and think they're both very capable, but I think Obama is more fit for this job and more fit to handle the issues we're facing. He had much the better points and the better arguments, like I said. Anyway, who am I convincing? Pssh.)
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  4. #44
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    They were talking about global goverance.

    Alex Jones an avid Ron Paul supporter.
    And Ron Paul is a Republican who made extra-careful not to use the word "libertarian" during his campaign. He's by far the most libertarian mainstream primary candidate, but he isn't a traditional libertarian.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #45
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    I think both McCain and Obama had great points. And I REALLY like McCain.
    I thought McCain came across as a petulant, tired, paranoid old man.
    And that's after I desperately wanted to vote for him in 2000.
    I feel terrible for having such a negative impression of him.

    Just looking at how the two behaved in the debate, it was very easy to see which one I thought would be on the top of his game if dealing with an unexpected stressful issue, no question.

    In terms of negative ads, even in the debate it was pretty clear which candidate was pressing the negativity and taking potshots and phrasing things in negative ways. one consistently took opportunities to put negative spin on his opponent; the other generally avoided it, only responded to attacks, and usually only came back with anything negative when the other would continue to press the issue, so it was clear the issue had to be addressed.

    It just floored me that twice McCain even inadvertently admitted that Obama was an "eloquent speaker." I'm like, wth? That's a crime now? That means you don't actually need to refute his arguments more soundly? That means your own gaffs are excusable here because you're "not eloquent?" It was one of those comments that someone meant as a jab but it says more about the commenter than the one being commented on. Even his one good jab about how, if Obama wanted to run against Bush, he should have done it four years ago was pathetic: The first thing that popped into my head was, "Yeah, and you DID run against Bush, and even pathetic Bush kicked your ass back in 2000!"

    I also noted that McCain's points were rather scattershot, whether he started the discussion or whether he was responding, and when he did stick to anything, it was to his and Palin's "talking points" and not really dealing with the bulk of Obama's comments.

    On the other hand, Obama would take everything McCain said and go through with a structured list of points -- showing he has already thought through everything and built a coherent picture that he could access. He was able to actually address McCain's points and respond to them and then go back to his vision; I did not think that McCain did very much responding to Obama's points, which to me is the marks of the kid who didn't study for his exam, he just goes back and rehashes his programming.

    Case in point about the difference in big-picture logic here: Obama admitted that if we wanted some programs to help us, we were going to have to pay for them somehow. And he believed that, despite the current recession, sometimes it makes sense to invest in things that, long-term, will get us on our feet. Because if you play things far too conservatively, you are basically SHOOTING yourself in the feet. He advocates taking calculated risk(s). While it might seem instinctive to want to completely lock down all your assets (it's a strong Si mentality) in times of danger, it can sometimes be the completely wrong response, because your assets are not being invested in anything and you have NO hope for forward progress or getting yourself out, you're just "holding firm."

    McCain first came up with this absurd comment about "freezing the budget." My instinctive response was like, "That's just a load of bunk. No one truly freezes the budget, and how can you lock yourself into a bad situation that way?" Promise waiting to be broken.

    And then in the same debate, he's talking about the programs he wants to invest in. Hello???? McFlyCain? Obama even pointed it out to him -- you can't freeze the budget and then talk about how you're going to help autistic kids and Joe the plumber and all the other heart-jerking special-interest tidbits you throw out because you no longer have money to do it if you freeze the budget!

    McCain's comments were pathetically full of inconsistencies. I was just floored that the voters they had in the studio afterwards thought McCain "did well" -- and it was clear they were just focusing on one or two points they valued and not really looking at and evaluating the consistency of the man's statements... and the consistency to me is what acts partly as an "error checker" in situations where there's lots of details being brought up that I've not been exposed to.


    I never even watched a debate yet this election, and I was just floored by how... awful it was. McCain's the guy I wish I could have voted for in the past, and even now I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt... but after this debacle, the guy's obviously frazzled

    It was a really good debate, in my mind.
    Sigh, well, like I said, I thought it was abysmal. (No offense to you, but I guess I was expecting far more from McCain, both in character and in his thinking skills... and I was surprised by Obama.)

    Peace of mind like the kind Obama conveys to me signals to me that he is a VERY well-adjusted individual. McCain does too, but Obama even more so.
    I thought this was the worst I'd seen McCain. My impression is that he knows he's in the hole, he doesn't know what to do to get out, and so he's just pulling out the stops and just flinging crap at the wall in true maverick style, just hoping something sticks. That's why we hear so much more about "value" talk from him now, and Palin too, and why I think they're both ESTJs. Fi is the inferior, and they both get more personally ideological and start making these heart-rending ploys without any substance (trying to drag in emotions about autistic kids, abortion talk, blue-collar people, getting offended over roughspeak during the election that was directed at veterans and totally missing how McCain has been instigating it AND forgetting his own past in being a pretty caustic and foul-mouthed individual himself!).

    I think he's in the grips of his inferior at this point.

    Obama seemed comfortable, and he gave the negativity attention when it was clear it wasn't going to go away, and otherwise tried hard not to stoop to McCain's level in the personal slander category.

    That's the sort of person I want for president. (heck, I'd even vote for him to mod the forums here. ) It's about character. He can learn the details and get facts from his cabinet, if he's uneducated about something.
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  6. #46
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    I think both McCain and Obama had great points. And I REALLY like McCain. I think they're both very intelligent men. But I think Obama just had BETTER points, and I think he blew this out of the water, this debate. After this debate, I'm very much an Obama supporter.

    McCain's points about Obama just being an eloquent speaker, but that what you should really do is examine his words carefully, didn't hold up, in any of the times that I saw him bring it up (like twice; I came into the debate late, though, around the question of... gee, I can't remember now. A question or two before the question about, "Why do you think your running mate is better for the job than your opponent's?" or whatever it was).

    It was a really good debate, in my mind. I really liked the questions they asked, and I think both people handled everything really well. But I think Obama just ABOVE and BEYOND, and, though people might distrust him because he seems so eloquent, there is definitely something to be said about someone who can immediately answer exactly what the question asked in terms that make good logical sense and that also take into account the feelings and needs of the American people. I think it implies something about their ability to do the job as President. I trust Obama by what comes out of his mouth, not by the way it comes out of his mouth, but, still... and, I really do think they both are good speakers (well, they were this time; this is the only debate I've really watched closely between them, so I can't anything OTHER debates). But... still, there's something to be said about Obama's composure, which to me reflects an inner wisdom, an inner acceptance of himself and of reality. Peace of mind like the kind Obama conveys to me signals to me that he is a VERY well-adjusted individual. McCain does too, but Obama even more so. I don't I'm explaining myself very well, though. Man! Whatever.

    Cool debate. Go Obama! (I've never leant strongly in the direction of either candidate; in fact, up until very recently, I didn't know who I liked better. Well, yeah I did, I liked Obama better overall, but I knew that liking didn't necessarily say anything about his capability as President. But now I know. I'm for Obama. And not just cause I like him, cause I really do like both as people and think they're both very capable, but I think Obama is more fit for this job and more fit to handle the issues we're facing. He had much the better points and the better arguments, like I said. Anyway, who am I convincing? Pssh.)

    This is interesting. You "REALLY like McCain," and yet you support Obama. I usually hear it the other way around. You really hadn't made your mind up until recently?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #47
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    So, we're electing a president based on being a nice, relaxed guy? Why don't we just make Steven Wright president? He seems pretty relaxed.
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  8. #48
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    So, we're electing a president based on being a nice, relaxed guy? Why don't we just make Steven Wright president? He seems pretty relaxed.
    Hmm, is that REALLY what I was saying?

    But if that's to be the standard, why not have you be president?
    You seem pretty cool, calm, and laid-back.

    It beats me voting for Bill the Cat this time around.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #49
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    So, we're electing a president based on being a nice, relaxed guy? Why don't we just make Steven Wright president? He seems pretty relaxed.
    I don't think that's what is being said here, but composure certainly matters when someone in the spotlight is concerned. These people will have the nuclear codes. They will be able to push the red button. A level head is definitely a virtue.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #50
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Personally, I'd prefer a POTUS who was visibly angry at times. That job (and the campaign to get it) would piss me off to no end. Pretty much any government job would do that, and this one would be the highest-profile.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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