User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 23

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    IlyaK is right, though there are those who don't work for their money, and have their money work for them.

    Whether that relates to the OP or not, I have no idea. I didn't read it.

  2. #12
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    3,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    An interesting article in the Washington Post about social entrepreneurship.



    Props to all that good will and Heal the World stuff.

    How effective do people think this is? Is it a viable solution (or alternative) to organizations that have the same intention but just aren't having the intended effect or impact? Is the impact just a warm fuzzy feeling on the part of the social entrepreneur?

    Something interesting the guy in the article said


    I suppose positive action motivated by guilt is still helpful and beneficial so I'm not going to quibble about that. But there is a part of me in reading this profile that thinks this guy is sits at home and runs his organization, which is fine. His parents support him fully which ruins it for me. I don't know what it is about this part that bothers me but it just does. I guess you could equally say, yeah, he's not getting any support to do this and he still does it. But perhaps I think he has the golden parachute of his parents supporting him which changes the stakes in my eyes and makes it feel...hobbyish.

    Thoughts?

    This is what I'd like to do. Is it realistic? I still live in my parents' home and have never had a "real" job yet and thus I have no idea. Everything is idealistically realistic to me atm.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #13
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    This is what I'd like to do. Is it realistic? I still live in my parents' home and have never had a "real" job yet and thus I have no idea. Everything is idealistically realistic to me atm.
    Well it helps if you are already a business entrepreneur to start with.

    I wonder how many "social entrepreneurs" there are who started with it and weren't financially well off before becoming one.

  4. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    How effective do people think this is? Is it a viable solution (or alternative) to organizations that have the same intention but just aren't having the intended effect or impact? Is the impact just a warm fuzzy feeling on the part of the social entrepreneur?
    I have expressed my opinion about this elsewhere but I believe it to be more effective than government organizations that do the same thing. They can often be self-sustaining, and don't compete (as much) for government resources for other programs.

    Grameen Bank is probably the most famous for the impact it has on poverty.

    They come in various forms for various ends. I am sure you've heard of the Xprize Foundation also. Setting up prizes is an amazing way to get private industry to put their own money to work for particular causes.

    Of course, there are varying levels. Just as there are people working out of parents basements or garages in regular entrepreneurship, I am sure the same happens for social entrepreneurship. That doesn't mean its bad or will be unsuccessful.

    I also think the line between social entrepreneurship and other forms is rather fuzzy. But there is a different way to incorporate, that can allow founders to protect their ideals in the face of the pressure (legal obligation) to value maximizing shareholder profit over everything else.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I clearly didn't say every single rich guy, but it's basically the case for many rich people. Take inheritance for instance. What did Paris Hilton do to get her money? She was born.



    It piles up. Day after day, your life is effected by little occurences you couldn't stop or account for.



    That's all arbitrary. What if someone found out that they could make you do useful things without paying you money for it? What if you were being supresed by means of force or deprivation? What if you were being deceived?

    Additionally, what if a person only gets money through that kind manipulation? Do they desever the money they have? Is it a good and just thing that they wind up with this money?



    So you think there is no one with exceptional gifts, and a desire to succeed, that isn't rich?
    I'm curious what talents you are specifcally referring to, that these rich people supposedly have.
    About Paris Hilton: A fool and their money are soon parted. So either Paris winds up broke or she's not completely dumb as to squander the ridiculous amount of wealth she inherited. People like to use her as an icon, so she gets royalties or whatever. If it works, it works. Doesn't mean we have to like it.

    I don't think Britney Spears deserves her wealth either, but oh well, it is what it is. This is why we have file sharing. So entertainment can stop being a profitable industry and the only ones that make it do so because they're funded by commercial advertisers or because they do it out of love of the art, not the compensation.

    Yes, life is full of events we can't account for. What sets people apart is that there are those that adapt and there are those that whine about it. Bitching won't change the situation. Doing something about your current circumstances will.

    If someone was smart enough to manipulate you--or you were dumb enough to be manipulated, that's either their gain or your loss depending on how you look at it. Nobody's forcing you to do anything--not in America anyway. If you don't like your situation, either you do something about it, or you don't. Stop preaching justice and morals to me. Nobody gives a shit about that. Those that are where they are come to be there or at least stay there through at least some of their own merit. That said, I think it's also morally wrong to allow suckers to keep their money. As my professor said, you can't stimulate the economy with checks in the mail to dumb schmucks. If you gave that money to banks though, they lend out 12 for every 1 dollar they receive. Dumb schmucks simply lose that money one way or another.

    As for the rich/talented, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if they have the talents necessary to get rich and want to get rich (read: set their minds to it), they will get rich. What kind of talent? Oh, let's see: programming talent (Sergei Brin), investing talent (Warren Buffett, any number of Hedge Fund managers), mathematical talent (James H. Simons), and the list goes on. If you decide that you hate the system and want to do what you want to do even if it doesn't pay, then shut the fuck up.

    This is America. If you can't make yourself here, you can't make yourself anywhere. If you want to live in a nanny state in which everyone is equal despite far differing levels of effort, be my guest and move to Europe. You won't be missed.

    In the meantime, I think I'll continue to enjoy living in the #1 economy in the world and laugh at the fact that people are saying "DOWN WITH AMERICA" when we're simply having another one of our economic problems--compared with THEIR problems stemming from socialism or too many evil Islamists (I'm wondering whether or not that's redundant) screaming for "equal rights" when all they want to do is overthrow any form of capitalism and have everyone saying Allah Akbar.

    There is no perfect place in this world. Get used to it. If there was a perfect place, the imperfect would flock to it and fuck it up anyway. Your choice isn't between "good and bad" but between what kind of poison you're going to pick. Fairness is nonsense. Security is nonsense.

    You are responsible for yourself. You get dealt a certain hand of cards in life, and it's up to you as to how to play them. For every dumb rich bitch, there was someone that went from rags to riches. If you want to get rich, be my guest. But stop bitching. These bitching imbeciles that feel entitled to something (such as owning a home they can't afford) are the number one reason our economy tanked--not greedy Wall Streeters who are simply doing their best to move money to places in which it'll be better utilized.

    Of course, no politician will say that since an imbecile has as much voting power as Warren Buffett himself.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  6. #16
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    IlyaK1986 your posts are completely off topic and about to be split. Stop fouling my thread with your nonsense.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #17
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    How effective do people think this is?
    Ineffective, from a systemic point of view. The problem with systems is that the exist in balance - in order for this to work, it has to beat out alternative systems. The problem is that the highest level system will come down do individual incentives, which is contrary to the goals of the smaller system.

    An individual can choose to follow this methodology, but individuals as a group, won't.

    The problems remains about how resources are allocated... those that prioritize based on something that is not balanced within the system (ie: at equilibrium), will eventually be pushed out.

    It's not the utilitarianism is faulty - I strongly support it - but that the current mechanisms in the system do not support it.

    Is it a viable solution (or alternative) to organizations that have the same intention but just aren't having the intended effect or impact?
    I believe we have something similar. We tend to call them lobbyists.

    This is where the system rears it's head. Change is good, but whose change? Why change? Most changes are focused through profits, or at least through identifying a market (ie: needs) that could be profitable. By not responding to those cues, you end up working outside the natural market. With no objective method, "social change" really means "my worldview".

    Is the impact just a warm fuzzy feeling on the part of the social entrepreneur?
    I'm sure they want to make a change, and I'm sure they will make a change. But they are small, with small influence. They can only leverage their influence through market forces, or political forces... or some other mechanism.




    ---

    Having said this, you can do good leveraging these forces. Concerned citizens can make a difference. But the article talks as if a couple of people can engage in this kind of behaviour to great effect. It doesn't really work that way.

    Ygolo mentions a good market force example - prize competitions to accerate early development. Scientific achievements prizes are also effective.

    Although I don't believe micro-lending is in the same category (it isn't profitable, the default rate still exceeds returns), it is having a huge influence by leveraging market forces - the central problem is that poor are generally unable to gain the same abilities as the rich (and in this case, "rich" would be anyone with a couple of thousand of dollars to their name, of which all of north america/Europe, by virtue of inhereted infrastructure/wealth, have).

    In fact, micro-lending is a good example of how using market forces to allocate donations is vastly more effective than aid, simply because micro-lending allows individuals to accumulate capital in which to create wealth. Aid is more like the consumer attitude prevalent in the west.
    Last edited by ptgatsby; 10-15-2008 at 01:31 PM. Reason: typos galore!

  8. #18
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,121

    Default

    On the OP- the basic idea sounds good, but I'm not all so sure what overall impact it would have on society in general. I'm definitley remembering the Herbert Hoover idea that the people should take care of each other, instead of having any government input, and the Great Depression still happened and intensified.

    There's only so much a person can do

    And IlyaK- your "knowlege" about America is downright fantastic- why don't you go write a book (and quit posting shit that doesn't matter and just annoys people here?)
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    On the OP- the basic idea sounds good, but I'm not all so sure what overall impact it would have on society in general. I'm definitley remembering the Herbert Hoover idea that the people should take care of each other, instead of having any government input, and the Great Depression still happened and intensified.

    There's only so much a person can do

    And IlyaK- your "knowlege" about America is downright fantastic- why don't you go write a book (and quit posting shit that doesn't matter and just annoys people here?)
    A post was addressed to me, so I responded. Don't like it? There's always the ignore button.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  10. #20
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    A post was addressed to me, so I responded. Don't like it? There's always the ignore button.
    the first wasn't
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

Similar Threads

  1. alex jones and the case of the lizard people: the truth will be found out!
    By jcloudz in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-12-2016, 11:07 AM
  2. Type and the Use of Emoticons
    By MerkW in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 07-09-2010, 12:59 PM
  3. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-30-2008, 08:38 PM
  4. "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" review...
    By The Ü™ in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-22-2007, 03:34 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO