User Tag List

View Poll Results: Is McCain Being Suckered by Obama?

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, McCain is calling Obama's bluff, Obama thought he'd back down.

    1 9.09%
  • Yes, McCain is falling right into the pungi pit Obama dug for him.

    10 90.91%
First 123

Results 21 to 25 of 25

  1. #21
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6?
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    While I'm torn over the abortion thing and in many ways Obama seems unflappable, yes, I bet if McCain had had the cajones to really delve deeply into the gruesome details of abortion and whatever else and paint him as a real monster (just an all-out character assassination) on the air, there would be the possibility of Obama losing his game face and then it would be interesting to see what would come out.
    Abortion came up last night, of course, and I think that Obama came across as a moderate (when he talked about how nobody is pro abortion, and how pro choice and pro life people should be able to agree on a few things that could prevent abortions), and McCain came across as a pretty extremely pro-life when he challenged the notion of protecting a mother's health.

    I know that there are some people who would jump on the Obama train if it wasn't for the abortion issue... but I also think that there are women out there who voted for Clinton and who have been considering McCain seriously who would be alienated by McCain's comments about abortion.

    I actually am trying to be objective here in my observations. Obviously I like Obama and will be voting for him--but I also think he genuinely comes across as more reasonable, measured, and moderate during debates.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Abortion came up last night, of course, and I think that Obama came across as a moderate (when he talked about how nobody is pro abortion, and how pro choice and pro life people should be able to agree on a few things that could prevent abortions)
    That was funny, because it was what I told my younger son exactly last week, when he said I shouldn't vote for Obama because he "killed babies."

    (My ESFP kid... yeesh... Heart is in the right place, but he has not developed much nuance or critical thinking.)

    I guess that makes me a moderate?

    Once he heard me say that, he was like "Well, you still shouldn't support him cuz he's for gay marriage!" Oh dear.

    and McCain came across as a pretty extremely pro-life when he challenged the notion of protecting a mother's health.
    I have trouble telling what McCain actually believes anymore. I think he's held an openly pro-life position for at least a year or two if not more, but he seems to do so much lately to win over the Republican base (after referring to the leaders as "agents of intolerance" some years back), I'm just not sure.

    I personally do not know anyone who thinks abortion is a "great thing." The problem is that there are two great goods pitted against each other.

    I know that there are some people who would jump on the Obama train if it wasn't for the abortion issue... but I also think that there are women out there who voted for Clinton and who have been considering McCain seriously who would be alienated by McCain's comments about abortion.
    I still fail to understand how someone can be against abortion but support bombing that kills children overseas (and vice versa, I suppose). It all seems to be about a matter of which "good" is personally convenient to someone.

    So McCain might have gotten Obama to open up more about his abortion stance there, but it was far from a pitfall... he seems moderate and conciliatory, and was able to add context to his decision about his vote against the new abortion law (it was highly redundant with established law and the hippocratic oath the state doctors already followed); I would have probably voted "present" as well, as the least of three evils. (Voting "against" would have seemed like, well, an "against" vote and suggesting you think abortion is fine; voting "for" would have seemed stupid; "present" is all you've got left.) I am not sure why that decision is being vilified.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Obama will probably return fire with mention of McCain's involvement in the Keating Five. The two of them deserve each other.
    Unlike Ayers and Wright, the Keating Five scandal is relevant to this election. McCain personally obstructed a regulatory investigation into Charles Keating's savings & loan. This bought Charles Keating another two years so he could finish looting it. McCain should have seen what can happen when there is no regulation, but he's still against regulation. The crap mortgage market collapse says he's still wrong.

  4. #24
    Member Oleander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    86

    Default

    I'd like to think that nobody actually despises women and femaleness enough to be purely pro-abortion rather than allowing choice but I found that untrue. We assume that very few women actually want an abortion (there's always a few) and most feel they are doing what circumstances force them into. Yet when I tried to raise the question of how support could be made easier for women to rear children they feel at present constrained to abort I was sharply rounded on by self-styled 'feminists' telling me that nobody is interested in discussing why women want abortions and I must be a misogynist dinosaur for even raising the possiblity that some women might feel constrained into abortion because their circumstances deny them the freedom to raise a child they would prefer to have. So I conclude that there is a contingent of women who call themselves 'feminist' (whether they really are or not) who would much rather see women having abortions because they are too poor to feed a child and struggling on at work than recognised and paid for exercising the one thing that distinguishes them from men. I assume that in those women's eyes, anything female is necessarily inferior to anything they consider male.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    332

    Default

    I think Obama is playing the political game just as much as McCain. He is just playing it more smartly. He is allowing McCain to dig himself into a hole while still keeping his integrity. I am personally very turned off by the Ayers allegations. I'm not interested in silly finger pointing. It makes me respect Obama more for addressing it straight up in the debate.

Similar Threads

  1. Can we learn to ask the Big Questions?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-20-2009, 06:04 AM
  2. The Language of Politics (moved from who sucks?)
    By Magic Poriferan in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 08-26-2008, 09:10 PM
  3. The INTPCentral Question
    By MerkW in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 11-30-2007, 03:11 PM
  4. The Ultimate Question
    By RansomedbyFire in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 09-22-2007, 05:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO