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  1. #11
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    i kinda wanted an apocalypse. It would be kinda fun riding a horse to your friend's pad, instead of driving a car.

  2. #12
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    The big companies can easily dominate any country's economy. The money goes over to America or Europe. They pay as few dimes as possible for their cheap materials and manufacturers to make their prices lower for you and me.
    Those countries receiving small amounts of money is better than the zero money they would be receiving without capitalism.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuranes View Post
    I think wanting to own things is a fairly primal need, and it is somewhat indulged by Capitalism. ( By that I mean some people within the capitalist system enjoy more feeling of "control" than others, and not that Communism would give you more of a feeling of ownership. )

    It is when we get into the implications that people are owned ( in all but name ) or can be owned period that we run into trouble, of course.

    In the "Conservative Feminism" thread it was mentioned by Peguy that the nuclear family as a primal unit ( fulfilling those needs ) has been around in its current form for so long that history has judged it the best way for individuals to proceed, and continue life etc. I don't think anyone questions that this approach also fits a primal demand. When discussing alternatives in that thread, it seemed the idea was that other perspectives were doomed by not being so tried and true, or primally basic.
    So, if we would like to consider alternatives to capitalism or democracy, we should find a human emotion that is about power but not about greed. Would "respect" work? How would a respect based system be like?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Those countries receiving small amounts of money is better than the zero money they would be receiving without capitalism.
    So, are you ready to say that their economy will eventually get on the level of the western economies?

  5. #15
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    The big companies can easily dominate any poor country's economy. The money goes over to America or Europe. They pay as few dimes as possible for their cheap materials and manufacturers to make their prices lower for you and me.
    But how would make a country poorer, if they didn't even have those dimes from the big companies to begin with? You can't make someone poorer by buying goods and labor from them.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #16
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    Jeez man. There isn't any system that will trump basic human nature or the level of consciousness of the people under it. In order for you to see anything that works better than the various systems we already have, there has to be a change in the consciousness of the people under it. Sorry if I sound spiritual here (though I am), but that's a fact. The people have to change quite dramatically before the collective societies and economic structures they create can ever change. Gotta fix the foundation of the house (the people) before you can work on the building a new one (a financial/governing system). You can go around in circles discussing it until the end of time, but not a darn thing will change in the end until that happens.

  7. #17
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    So, are you ready to say that their economy will eventually get on the level of the western economies?
    It's a possibility. And there are many non-western countries that are doing great. It helps to have natural resources, though.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  8. #18
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    So, if we would like to consider alternatives to capitalism or democracy, we should find a human emotion that is about power but not about greed. Would "respect" work? How would a respect based system be like?
    Well, I don't think this technically fulfills all the attributes of a respect oriented system, but it seems to be the closest thing operating in today's world. Yes, people use money and own things, but there is a place for respect. Here is a link to another post here, which apparently most people missed, or it was the thread killer.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post311243
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  9. #19
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    Communism appeals to human virtue. Everyone is equal, give according to your abilities and you will be given to according to your needs. Everyone contributes and lives a happy lifestyle.

    Except for the dumb schmuck that gets things anyway but has no ability. Which makes the smart guy who contributes so much wonder why he's working so hard. He could just be lazy also.

    The result is that nobody does anything and expects rewards for more than they do.

    Capitalism isn't a system for the greedy. It's a system in which you get out what you put in. Be talented, work hard, be creative, persevere, and you'll go far. Despair and drop out, and you're a nobody.

    And it works damn fine.

    Democracy has its flaws in that most people aren't too bright but have as much voting power as a genius. So far, it's worked pretty nicely, when coupled with limited terms. Except for Bush. He's the flaw.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    But how would make a country poorer, if they didn't even have those dimes from the big companies to begin with? You can't make someone poorer by buying goods and labor from them.
    I said KEEPING the countries poor. Ok, say we have a tiny country that has some U.S. owned factory. Their economy is dependent of it. The factory pays its workers the average pay of the country. The tiny country has a functional government that cant do anything about that factory not giving more money, because it would destroy their economy if the factory shipped to the next cheap country. This doesn't make the country stay poor directly, but, those people working in the factory could be working in small businesses that would benefit the country more by strengthening their private sector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    The people have to change quite dramatically before the collective societies and economic structures they create can ever change. Gotta fix the foundation of the house (the people) before you can work on the building a new one (a financial/governing system). You can go around in circles discussing it until the end of time, but not a darn thing will change in the end until that happens.
    So, you say that I am the first one of a new level thinking? I like the sound of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Communism appeals to human virtue. Everyone is equal, give according to your abilities and you will be given to according to your needs. Everyone contributes and lives a happy lifestyle.

    Except for the dumb schmuck that gets things anyway but has no ability. Which makes the smart guy who contributes so much wonder why he's working so hard. He could just be lazy also.
    I am not for communism, for the tenth time!

    You know, people, I was hoping to see visions to where the system could be led to, not this status quo reinforcing. I bet most of you guys could easily vision some sci-fi scenarios reaching thousands years from now, yet you are unable to vision some other ways for the system? You do see that capitalism has many stages behind it? Do you really think that this is it? The final and the best form? We are in an interesting time in history, the capitalism is changing and I would like to get your view on how it might become in the next fifty, hundred or thousand years.

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