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  1. #81
    Senior Member Lucifer's Avatar
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    Barrack Obama, save yourselves and vote for him.
    This world is mine - in time.

  2. #82
    Member Oleander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    This creates bitterness for generations and exacerbates the problem of terrorism. On top of that, Iraq was an ally of ours not long before the Gulf War. I think we also learned about this following World War I.
    The First Gulf War succeeded because Bush Snr knew when to stop. American forces are good at force. They are lousy policemen. Get in do the job get out, that works. Saddam got left in place under powerful conditions knowing if it could happen once it could happen again. He behaved himself. He never became a saint but the list of unsaintly leaders goes on for ever topped by those the US has traditionally armed and kept in place against social justice and democracy.

    You can bomb everybody you don't like but in a world of global trade there's a catch. They own half your industry, you own half of theirs. You need their goods, they need your money and vice-versa. International trade is the only thing that has kept the Dollar afloat for nearly 30 years. The US itself is bankrupt.

    Invading Iran has been on the cards undre one excuse or another ever since the story went round that they planned to trade oil in Euro instead of Dollars. Image once one major producer took the risk for political reasons how fast Venzuela and all the other anti-American producers would follow!

    Major US corporations are mostly multinational corporations. Those that actually manufacture for export usually have their factories overseas. Are they going to risk their own people bombing those factories to hell and back? Are they going to risk the world telling them it doesn't want their products and forbidding them sale of their own? Including perhaps oil? The world can live quite happily without Coke or MacDonald's.

    Hitler couldn't bomb everybody into submission. He needed their oil and once deprived of it he was doomed. In Hitler's day the US was close to self-sufficient and parts of it were very rich. Most of it was stinking poor and didn't even have interstate highways. The World War made it rich and the Cold War kept it that way. The resources it was built on are running out and others have much more of them. American engineering? Outside of Space what proportion of vehicles and domestic appliances are built or or even designed in America, even in in America?

    Sure there are major American-based international finance institutions. Right now they are less popular or trusted than Osama bin Laden. Imagine bombing them out and expecting allies of the victim nations to go on letting them function! Except for a few internationally loathed leaders like Saddam and Kim, invading anywhere is a scorched earth policy in reverse for any major trading nation. In scorched earth tactics you withdraw and destroy everything useful to the enemy. Reversed you destroy everything and occupy a wasteland it costs you to rebuild.

  3. #83
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post

    (Though I'm sure we'd find a peaceful way to solve it, such as with some nice hockey games =])
    fixed

  4. #84
    Senior Member Lucifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    fixed
    -_-

    Honestly Beat...
    This world is mine - in time.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Well, say it this way... I was given high standard of living, I have all kinds of opportunities to become whatever I want. This was made possible by work of other people before me that made my country rise above some countries. When I follow the resources needed to do this, I see that without unfair treatment of other countries this would not have been possible. There are countries that are in a bad shape now because their chances for better have been stolen by irresponsible use of capitalism.

    And, I might add that the world is polluted and dying. So it could be fair for me to try to give something back.



    Ok, I agree with this more than I agree with US policy at the moment.

    But you know, this conversation is doomed to fail, because a nihilist talking to a humanist can never really lead to anything... (Except maybe marriage. Are you female?)
    No, I am male. And I don't quite think I'm Nihilist, so much as objective to beyond thinking about human feeling. And my view on US foreign policy is that we're just wasting so much treasure trying to take care of the world--which is money that we could put to such better use here in the states that it's unbelievable. We should let those that wish to destroy themselves do just that and just insulate our allies from it.

    And as for countries whose chances have been stolen, oh please. If you sit on top of natural resources, you have the chance to prosper and create...

    In fact, fuck...NOT EVEN. Israel has NO natural resources and look at what it does. Japan has next to nothing in terms of natural resources and it's the second strongest economy in the world!

    I don't believe in having a debt to the world. I believe that because we humans can reason, that we can, if we work hard enough, achieve anything we set our mind to.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  6. #86
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    It's too much fun and this one fell in my lap, you gotta admit.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    Some good points gained from classes I haven't taken and probably won't have the chance to...
    Oil is a huge problem. I agree that right now, we're sort of in a tight spot because of it.

    But in terms of selling oil in the Euro, that's laughable. Europe got too tied up with our mortgage mess and now THEIR economies are tanking. So if they try to sell oil in the Euro, I think in terms of the race to the bottom, we're hitting (and bouncing) back up first, whenever the bottom is.

    As for American engineering:

    Google.
    Microsoft.
    Lockheed Martin.
    General Electric.
    General Motors.
    Tesla Motors.

    And of course, all of this knowledge is gained for the most part in American institutions.

    Once we get green energy online (which I'm clamoring for), then terrorism goes out the window with oil.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  8. #88
    Senior Member Lucifer's Avatar
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    Yea I don't blame you, I blame your teachers.
    This world is mine - in time.

  9. #89
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    No, I am male. And I don't quite think I'm Nihilist, so much as objective to beyond thinking about human feeling.
    There are values. Human rights shouldn't be forgotten.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    And my view on US foreign policy is that we're just wasting so much treasure trying to take care of the world--which is money that we could put to such better use here in the states that it's unbelievable. We should let those that wish to destroy themselves do just that and just insulate our allies from it.
    This I can buy. Yes, U.S. should mind its own business. Diplomacy is also quite a lot cheaper than aircraft carriers.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    And as for countries whose chances have been stolen, oh please. If you sit on top of natural resources, you have the chance to prosper and create...

    In fact, fuck...NOT EVEN. Israel has NO natural resources and look at what it does. Japan has next to nothing in terms of natural resources and it's the second strongest economy in the world!
    If you sit on top of natural resources, sure. But I am talking about these countries like Japan. The resources come from somewhere and it wasn't long ago when there were colonies for this. I am saying that the poor countries are not poor by accident. We made them poor. Or, at least kept them poor.

  10. #90
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    Countries like Japan? Japan is an amazing country. Well, not to foreigners (they get looked at funny), but to the people there. All of this technology and innovation, yet these traditional shrines in out of the way places, and of course, who can deny the beauty of Mount Fuji?

    In terms of "we" made them poor by accident, which countries are you referring to, and who is "we"?
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

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