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  1. #51
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edel weiss View Post
    The US accounts for nearly half of the entire world's military spending. Most of the world is plenty scared.

    List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    That's the nature of the law of increasing cost of war. The hegemon is forced to spend substantially more on Defense R&D and production because they are the one on top. It then filters down to other nations via buying, receiving, or stealing. It costs us significantly more to create jets than it costs Israel to buy them from us.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    In my opinion it is really too late to remedy the problems the US has and we are going to see upheaval big time. Everything points to that. I hope it's staved off long enough for me to get outta here.

    One of our major problems is our exponentially growing population. Add to that the huge amount of immigrants which we still welcome through tradition, though not wisely, and our humanity problems will cause a collapse of the system irregardless of terrorism.

    I think blind optimism about maintaining the status quo would be better spent getting ready for the chaos.

    The terrorists? They're already among us. No need to go looking for them half-way around the world. And not all of them are "towelheads."
    And once again, where will you go? We've faced these kinds of problems before--bigger ones in fact. The bombing of Pearl Harbor, and after that, the red scare. This is also merits different approaches that we should not be averse to taking.

    The problem is the media and people that believe in such things as "human rights" for people that are anything but human, and in the news media for trying to tug at our heartstrings, rather than presenting us with information that's important to us.

    Why do we need to know that someone got murdered in the major city close to us? It happens all the time and then it just becomes "oops, someone got killed again".

    As bad as things look in the US, they're FAR worse anywhere else in the world.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by edel weiss View Post
    I thought that US and Pakistan were pretty friendly till about some time ago.
    They still are on paper. That was minor.

    And Nolla, your idea is terrible. Simply because we are NOT all equals. We have far better standards of living in the US than in a lot of other places. So our policy should not be dictated by any other nations.

    See that's the thing--we have the power to act without the consent of other nations, and I don't mean to botch it up Bush style. We have the power to annihilate any enemy from the face of the earth. And whether you want to admit it or not, our enemies are probably your enemies.

    Any nation not living under Sharia is an enemy to the Islamic theocracies. The end. The only reason they don't attack us is that they don't have the power. If the situation were switched around, we'd all be living under Muslim rule. Learn your history. Islam went on conquering sprees. Twice. They still try to. The only reason they haven't succeeded is that we've battled them down militarily.

    But why leave this to chance? Why not just destroy the threats once and for all?
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  4. #54
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    And once again, where will you go? We've faced these kinds of problems before--bigger ones in fact. The bombing of Pearl Harbor, and after that, the red scare. This is also merits different approaches that we should not be averse to taking.

    The problem is the media and people that believe in such things as "human rights" for people that are anything but human, and in the news media for trying to tug at our heartstrings, rather than presenting us with information that's important to us.

    Why do we need to know that someone got murdered in the major city close to us? It happens all the time and then it just becomes "oops, someone got killed again".

    As bad as things look in the US, they're FAR worse anywhere else in the world.
    Well, that's the truth. My point exactly. Exponentially growing population. . .

    Where will I go? That's up to the Powers That Be. Haven't a clue on that one.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #55
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    No American hubris in my corner. There is a limit to the amount a nation can tackle regardless of track record.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #56
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    And as for exponentially growing population, immigration is declining to the US now that nobody wants to hire a foreigner. Their legal and visa issues just cost far too much, unless it's for a professorship, and then, you have to be DAMN good (most of the time, I've had some garbage foreign profs and TAs).

    Immigrants will find the US right now a terrible, terrible place. So you need not worry about that.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  7. #57
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    And as for exponentially growing population, immigration is declining to the US now that nobody wants to hire a foreigner. Their legal and visa issues just cost far too much, unless it's for a professorship, and then, you have to be DAMN good (most of the time, I've had some garbage foreign profs and TAs).

    Immigrants will find the US right now a terrible, terrible place. So you need not worry about that.
    There surely aren't illegal immigrants. And the U.S. surely isn't better off than Mexico.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  8. #58
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edel weiss View Post
    I guess other people's lives don't matter, as long as American lives are saved.
    I don't see how our significant sacrifice of American troops over seas affirms this idea.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    There surely aren't illegal immigrants. And the U.S. surely isn't better off than Mexico.
    That's also an issue. Don't deport them if caught. Jail them. Make a very bad example out of them. Send a message. Solve problem.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  10. #60
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Zawahiri (Osama's right hand man) said years ago that they could not bring down the super power (the US) but we can make them bring themselves down, we can draw them into an economically backwards crusade and have them destroy themselves.

    So, they attack us on 9/11/2001 by flying planes into the World Trade Center, their intentions were not just to kill 3,000 of our citizens, that just came with the job, what they were really after was hurting our Economy, it was strictly an economic attack that happened to kill people in the process. This attack wasn't the main one intended by Osama and Zawahiri, it was the worm on a hook. We took the bait and were reeled over into the middle east and began to pour our money into the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, billions and billions and billions of dollars spent for the deaths of 3,000 people.

    Over the course of the war we have lost approximately 4,000 additional Americans in the armed forces and we have taken the lives of nearly 100,000 Innocent Iraqi civilians (atleast thats how many are Documented). So, we tried to revenge the lives of 3,000 people and ended up losing even more than that in even more American blood, killed a hundred thousand or so innocent foreigners, and will have spent nearly what, 2 trillion dollars now to do it? And we didn't even catch the guy that started this in the first place.

    Once we got in the middle east and couldn't catch Osama, some red herrings lead us into Iraq because while we were there we might as well take down a corrupt leader and fight some 'terrorists' that we could actually find right? Guess what, Osama is in Pakistan, in a villa, not a cave. But we can't go into Pakistan now can we, too much to risk involved there, we'll just continue beating the dead horse in Iraq instead because we say that it's unstable and it would be disastrous for us to leave right? Well, Iraq's prime minister (Nouri al-Maliki)has asked for a timetable for withdrawal but Bush insists that we should stay for just a while longer (link).

    Now, back to the whole "2 trillion dollar war" thing. Don't you think, maybe, just maybe, that if we hadn't dug ourselves into the the middle east and put ourselves in trillions of dollars of debt, that, maybe, possibly, this whole "financial crisis" thing would not have occured, maybe, just a thought? That the money spent could have been used to fix the mortgage crisis? Isn't this the core cause of our problems? Falling for a trick played by a desert-gang. Sad isn't it? That an extremist group in a remote region thousands and thousands of miles away from our country, can understand and take advantage of America's weaknesses and use them against us? They shot a barbed arrow right into our stomach, and we carelessly ripped it right out, and now our guts are spilling all over the floor. Who's fault is that? Were we an intelligent and honorable country, wouldn't we have had the constitution (not the document) to handle it with composure and just count the losses and move on? Couldn't we see that the whole purpose of the attack was to hurt our markets, to hurt us within, to aggravate us to strike back? No, we had to take it personally, being the resilient, intelligent Americans that we are. That this was a direct attack on our freedom, that if we didn't fight back we would lose it all. Folks, is this a rational attidute? They shit on us now we have to shit on them?

    We're losers, Osama has won. He and his gang are laughing at us as they lounge in Pakistan. They're watching us bleed our financial guts out, scrambling to pull them back inside, and then we decide to pull out more in hopes that we can use these guts to pull other guts back inside.

    Have they not completed what they set out to do? Have they not hurt us where it really makes a difference? Has the decline of America finally been initiated?
    Exactly. They won. And America is going down....Too bad emotionality got in the way of rationality and common sense.
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