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View Poll Results: Should business be allowed to discriminate based on religion?

Voters
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  • Support gay marriage/businesses should not be allowed to discriminate

    12 42.86%
  • I support gay marriage/businesses should be allowed to discriminate

    9 32.14%
  • Against gay marriage/businesses should not be allowed to dicriminate

    0 0%
  • Against gay marriage/businesses should be allowed to discriminate

    2 7.14%
  • Other (explain)

    5 17.86%
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  1. #1
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    Default (Poll) Gay Wedding Cakes

    It's back.

    ...the issue of gay wedding cakes. The Supreme Court is hearing arguments. What are your thoughts? Vote in the poll above.

    Keep it civil.

    Top court weighs baker's refusal to make cake for gay couple

  2. #2
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Falcarius thinks companies should either not make any political products or cater for the whole shebang; be it Nazi, Libertarian, Socialist, Liberal or Conservative.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    I don't really see how selling a person a cake goes against anyone's religion. It's a complete non sequitur to the act of homosexuality. No one is going to be having more or less sex because of it, and if you're running a business you're not doing yourself any favors by blocking yourself from your own market. Rather than fight external forces to validate internal feelings of bigotry maybe fight internal forces to validate external feelings of love and acceptance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    I don't really see how selling a person a cake goes against anyone's religion. It's a complete non sequitur to the act of homosexuality. No one is going to be having more or less sex because of it, and if you're running a business you're not doing yourself any favors by blocking yourself from your own market. Rather than fight external forces to validate internal feelings of bigotry maybe fight internal forces to validate external feelings of love and acceptance.
    Do you think it's a wedge issue? I do. I think the cake baker probably sees it as an opportunity to be a martyr, however, I also think the couple protesting the discrimination might see it as a political opportunity.

    This case happened in Denver, I can't help wondering if there aren't other skilled bakers in that fairly large city who would be more than happy to bake cakes for gay couples. I genuinely wonder in a case like this, why not simply choose to take your money to another business, spread the word to your enlightened friends that X business is not LGBT friendly? Then everyone wins. Bigoted cake shop owner gets to enjoy his religious freedoms under the 1st amendment, whilst gay couple and anyone disagreeing with the cake baker votes with their dollars by supporting a different baker. If bigoted cake baker sees a drop in business, he can either go out of business or he can reevaluate and determine if he wants to compromise his beliefs and put them aside to make money.

    That is why I agree most with option #2

  5. #5
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    Do you think it's a wedge issue? I do. I think the cake baker probably sees it as an opportunity to be a martyr, however, I also think the couple protesting the discrimination might see it as a political opportunity. This case happened in Denver, I can't help wondering if there aren't other skilled bakers in that fairly large city who would be more than happy to bake cakes for gay couples. I genuinely wonder in a case like gthis, why not simply choose to take your money to another business, spread the word to your enlightened friends that X business is not LGBT friendly? Then everyone wins. Bigoted cake shop owner gets to enjoy his religious freedoms under the 1st amendment, whilst gay couple and anyone disagreeing with the cake baker votes with their dollars by supporting a different baker. If bigoted cake baker sees a drop in business, he can either go out of business or he can reevaluate and determine if he wants to compromise his beliefs and put them aside to make money. That is why I agree most with option #2
    Yeah, it's a wedge issue for sure. Both parties are probably stubbornly hateful of one another and are acting purely out of spite, each with the enormous backing of their respective tribes. Once the courts settle the matter with prescident it should be put to bed.

  6. #6
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Falcarius voted other as he took what is quoted below to not to fit with none of the options. He believe a company should discriminate against everyone equally, so in this case making both pro-homosexual and homophobic cakes cake, or discriminate against no group by making no cakes to do with any kind of sexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Falcarius thinks companies should either not make any political products or cater for the whole shebang; be it Nazi, Libertarian, Socialist, Liberal or Conservative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    Yeah, it's a wedge issue for sure. Both parties are probably stubbornly hateful of one another and are acting purely out of spite, each with the enormous backing of their respective tribes. Once the courts settle the matter with prescident it should be put to bed.
    I think there is already a precedent under the 1st amendment.

    I hate to be taking the side of the baker. Because he's probably a sanctimonious twat who sees himself as an oppressed Christian martyr. Like that County Clerk Kim Davis lady who refused to do marriage licenses for gay couples. Although that was a different case, in that case I think she should've done her job, because she was a gov't employee and to refuse to do her job as a gov't employee was a violation of what had been settled in the supreme court. There were any number of ways she scould've voiced her personal opinion without refusing to do her job. She could've just quit, she could've voiced it among her little churchey friends, she could've written a letter to her congressperson, but instead she instead decided to seek attention by not doing her job. Which seems a little unchristian

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Falcarius voted other as he took what is quoted below to not to fit with none of the options. He believe a company should discriminate against everyone equally, so in this case making both pro-homosexual and homophobic cakes cake, or discriminate against no group by making no cakes to do with any kind of sexuality.
    And political consulting companies????
    Do they have a right to discriminate on which clients they take up?
    Of course they do.

    The case is narrower than the polling question.

    The issue is whether or not someone who makes personalized products has a right to discriminate between what products they'll produce. It's not even a question of whether they can discriminate against certain people. The answer should seem obvious to anyone with common sense outside of any hot politically controversial issue.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    I think there is already a precedent under the 1st amendment. I hate to be taking the side of the baker. Because he's probably a sanctimonious twat who sees himself as an oppressed Christian martyr. Like that County Clerk Kim Davis lady who refused to do marriage licenses for gay couples. Although that was a different case, in that case I think she should've done her job, because she was a gov't employee and to refuse to do her job as a gov't employee was a violation of what had been settled in the supreme court. There were any number of ways she scould've voiced her personal opinion without refusing to do her job. She could've just quit, she could've voiced it among her little churchey friends, she could've written a letter to her congressperson, but instead she instead decided to seek attention by not doing her job. Which seems a little unchristian
    I definitely think the first ammendment should trump the later court rulings during the post civil war for anti discrimination laws, and later still in Colorado for anti LGBT discrimination, but you never know which way the courts are going to go. Hell, Roe vs Wade was settled on old trespassing laws...

  10. #10
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    If he was actually concerned abut his religious rights, the baker would refuse to make cakes for divorced people remarrying, a Hindu wedding (Evangelicals see them as idolaters)..

    What can I say to a Hindu friend who practices idolatry who says that the Christian use of the cross is the same thing? | Evidence for Christianity

    ..or Jews or any other slander. When you have a “religious freedom” claimant, what you find underneath is someone who really wants to ban abortion, overturn same-sex marriage, and bring back anti-sodomy laws. Ultimately, they want to impose their religious beliefs on others. They want to win the Culture War and ban the stuff they don’t like.

    Changing Attitudes on Gay Marriage | Pew Research Center

    All that said, I'm almost certain the baker will win this argument.
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