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  1. #31
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Copernicus/Galileo maybe..
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  2. #32
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushranger View Post
    His empire was larger than the Roman empire at one point. Some estimates say that in certain areas he killed nearly half the overall population.
    The current structure of central Asia was greatly influenced by the nature of his expansion. Now a very heavily populated area.


    Genetically he was the most successful human being we know of. Genetic success extends to aiding the bloodlines of kin.


    Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count
    Yes, Genghis was one of a kind.

    That Twentieth C. Atlas is partly incorrect. The Mideast slave trade never ended.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Luther...

    The reformation began a process where people started challenging the church and supersition, later came the englightenment, even Voltaire desrcibed Luther as begining the process.. the englightenment, leads to our modern scientific and secular basis of society and thus one of the largest changes in the last 1000, especially when you consider how technology is linked to this...

  4. #34
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    Many years ago, when asked what he considered the single most important invention (after basic things like the fire and the wheel, I guess), I recall that an old history professor of mine answered, "Double-entry bookkeeping." He said that the invention of double-entry accounting single-handedly ended the Dark Ages and kicked off the Renaissance.

    Before modern accounting was invented, it wasn't feasible to build large sailing ships because no single individual wanted to invest his entire fortune in a single large ship that could easily sink; and you couldn't get multiple investors together to invest in big ships for deep-sea use because there was no way to do the accounting that was required. So shipping remained small, local, and geared toward fishing and traffic along the coast and on rivers (IOW, within sight of land).

    But with the invention of double-entry bookkeeping, societies of investors could come together to invest in big ships, the big ships allowed for long-disance travel and trade, merchants and cities became rich, and the wealthy merchants and cities had the money and leisure to fund the art and science of the Renaissance.

    So according to my history professor, the invention of double-entry accounting kicked off investment societies, capitalism, and the whole modern era. Unfortunately history doesn't record who first actually had the smart idea of keeping their accounting in two columns. But I guess I'll agree with my history professor and nominate that unknown accountant, whoever he was.

    FL

  5. #35
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Hehe, well, what I think one must take into consideration is how original the contribution is. If the person who came up with it didn’t, when would someone else have come up with it or done something similar? Based on that, I guess all contributions by persons seem smaller.

  6. #36
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Bill Cosby.

  7. #37
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ok that OP list was a little skewed. I'm glad Wildcat brought in the historical context because I would have thought that those leaders of continent spanning wars which have set the boundaries of countries and set up problems like Israel would be more influential. It seems that the list is comprised of those who came up with things which led to influential things, kind of like those who laid the foundations. Wouldn't it be interesting if they applied the same priorities to architects and venerated those pouring concrete.
    Even using that mindset the list is still somewhat subjective. For example wouldn't Adam Smith be more influencial than Karl Marx? I believe that the world has been shaped more by market economies than Communist ones. Also shouldn't Descartes be near the top being both the father of modern philosophy and the originator of the scientific method?

    The history channel got together several university professors and asked them who they thought was most influencial. University professors, being primarily INTP's, naturally selected INTP's that they liked. That's why the list looks like it does.

    Where you select the origin of influence is subjective. Because those amazing theories from the influencial scientists have to be based on data that was probably collected by some INTJ. Then the INTP's theory inspires some ENTP to create some amazing invention. But the invention is pointless without an ENTJ to sell it to the entire world. Now that the world is changed, some INTJ goes and studies the effects and the cycle repeats (and this of course isn't even taking into account other areas like the amazing social influence that NF's have on the world).

    On the other hand if you ask lots of educated people who the 100 most influencial people are, you will likely find many of the same people on everyone's list, but the order will be different. So I can't say the list is totally subjective.

    And now that I've said all that I'm going to completely contradict myself and say that Gutenburg is the most influencial person. Most of those other guys would have practically no influence without the printing press.
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  8. #38

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    Who the hell is Gutenberg?

    I was thinking Martin Luther King for first place before I opened the thread, simply because from my position on the map, the Christian schism seems to have informed on a lot of our culture since then.

    I wasn't even thinking scientists, though Newton and Einstein are great choices. Darwin? Not so much, imo.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Cerpin_Taxt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundowning View Post
    Who the hell is Gutenberg?

    I was thinking Martin Luther King for first place before I opened the thread, simply because from my position on the map, the Christian schism seems to have informed on a lot of our culture since then.

    I wasn't even thinking scientists, though Newton and Einstein are great choices. Darwin? Not so much, imo.
    He invented the printing press.
    One by one, over the months, the other bulbs burn out, and are gone. The first few of these hit Byron hard. He's still a new arrival, still hasn't accepted his immortality. But on through the burning hours he starts to learn about the transience of others: learns that loving them while they're here becomes easier, and also more intenseóto love as if each design-hour will be the last.

    Thomas Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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  10. #40
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    No I dont think that all great scientists and philosophers were INTPs...just a lot of them... maybe I could even say most of them..though not quite sure about that one yet..

    I think Newton was probably an INTP because he had this long absent minded streak like Einstein and Adam Smith..

    The other day when he was working on his experiment his servant brought him dinner, and his friend came by and ate it. When he snapped out of it, he said..wow..if it wasnt for the proof I would have sworn that I didnt eat today.

    As a child he was unusually solitary and unsociable. Rarely concerned with making his ideas practical or making a difference in the real world.

    His ideas were very much akin to the rationalists epistemic methodology, that pure reason can help you solve just about anything. An INTJ would be much more empirical than that.

    Newton wasnt much of a planner, and when he was doing his work he wasnt sequential about it, he would just dive right into the midst of things at the same time. He often lost track of time as well. I dont see a lot of J in his lifestyle based on the short writings about him that I've read...and his work resembles something like a Ti would produce..

    I could tell you more about my reasoning concerning his real life and his ideas that led me to type him as an INTP and not an INTJ...but I think that's enough for now..

    I agree the way Keirsey described him he sounded like an INTJ...(seeing far than anybody ..seems like Ni...Ni sees farther than all..they are our great visionaries of history) and how he didnt want to suffer fools or had no patience with useless ideas..

    The way Keirsey describes him it sounds like he had no patience with ideas that cant be applied..I dont think this is true of our great scientist..seems to me that he had no patience with illogical ideas..ideas that dont shed light onto the big picture...the big state of nature...INTPs and their Ti have the least patience of all with illogical ideas..and little patience with people not seeing the big picture (Ti-Ne)..Ti feels like its destined to answer the biggest questions and Ne just wants to keep a constant 'tower' view of everything...

    As for not wanting to suffer fools..applies to INTPs too doesnt it? How we have little patience with people who just like to talk non-sense or small talk on and on...and most of all those who are illogical as aforementioned...

    I think if Newton was an INTJ he probably wouldnt be so concerned with figuring the laws of nature just for the sake of figuring them out...he'd probably want to come up with a new vision for everyone follow...like Nietzsche for instance...and I dont think he'd be such a great admirer of the mathematical method...he'd probably rely on Intuition a lot more..as Introverted Intuition is their dominant function..

    I am not sure...Keirsey's description is misleading..he really painted him as an INTJ when he shouldnt have..based on what I know of Newton he sounds like an INTP more than any other type..
    What I know of Newton makes him more of an INTJ. First of all he died a virgin. Need I say more?

    But if you look at how he reasoned it's more of how an INTJ would do it. When he developed Calculus he tried to keep it secret. He really did it for his own understanding. An INTP would want to go tell everyone about their great idea.

    Also he didn't develop Calculus for it's own sake. From the beginning he was developing a system to expain what he saw in the natural world. Pure mathematics is Ti, but natural science relies more on Te. I know several INTJ's which are excellent at mathematics, but they always seem to have difficulty if they can't understand how the math applies to the real world. Newton's views on math where geared toward his understanding of the natural world. He developed Calculus quickly, but he didn't tell anyone and his notation is bad compared to Leibniz. This suggests his N was dominant over his T. His understanding was amazing, but he couldn't express his ideas as nicely as Leibniz (the INTP).

    Leibniz by contrast was more of a philosopher and was looking for math that would explain his philosophy. This is what you would expect from an INTP. The math is driven by his personal philosophy (Ti). Newton's math was inspired by the natural world (Te). They ended up discovering the same thing, but Leibniz expressed his ideas more clearly (his notation is still used today and Newton's is not), and he was more eager to tell people about what he'd developed. These things are what you would expect with an INTP. The things that survive today from Newton are his understanding of the natural world, but not necessarily the way he expressed his ideas. He's INTJ.
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