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  1. #81
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    "Conservative feminism" doesn't really focus on women's rights, which is central to feminism.

    "Cultural conservatism" or traditionalism is a more apt term.

  2. #82
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    "Conservative feminism" doesn't really focus on women's rights, which is central to feminism.

    "Cultural conservatism" or traditionalism is a more apt term.
    Great, now you've opened another can of worms - which will amount to a discussion concerning the nature of "rights" in the abstract sense. *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen
    I'm fairly satisfied for myself that I don't see much substance in conservative feminism.
    Must be an INFJ thing, cause I have the exact same view of your arguments.

  3. #83
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Isn't that the basic point of Feminist discourse anyways?




    Issues related to the family are important in any discourse on gender roles, male or female. The "Conservative feminist" angle is focusing on the female's role in the family, and how that relates to her overall role in society. Her role in the family is the foundation for her role in society.




    I don't see how that is so as far as men are concerned. As for women, I've already stated my basic position here numerous times.
    Yes, that women have a 'more direct' role in the family and blah blah blah. All you've laid out here is a restatement of traditional gender roles with a reversal of societal values. In reality, it wouldn't matter if the values were this way or that, since some women would always want to pursue careers and public lives for their intrinsic value, and not for the value that society placed on the endeavor. Such women would be excluded from your feminism.

    To create a hierarchy for women based on commitment to the family is just as bad as the hierarchy created by some feminists that is based off of a woman's level of separation from the home (that Betty Friedan apparently so detested). The idea is to give equal value to women's pursuits both in and out of the home, not to sway it one way or the other.
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  4. #84
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Great, now you've opened another can of worms - which will amount to a discussion concerning the nature of "rights" in the abstract sense. *sigh*
    Not really, the point is that "conservative feminists" don't exactly make women's rights an issue, no matter how you define "women's rights".

    They simply want to go back in time.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    The idea is to give equal value to women's pursuits both in and out of the home, not to sway it one way or the other.
    Nice theory, doesn't work in reality. The basic point I'm making here is that one serves as the basic foundation for the other. Without that foundation, the rest isn't really worth shit.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    They simply want to go back in time.
    A common accusation made against conservatives, but not true really. As Edmund Burke himself stated, change can only occur within responsible limits based on the principle of continuity. So the issue is not turning back the clock, but rather getting back on track.

  7. #87
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Well, I guess tomorrow I'll just have to point out all the hegemony up in this piece.* But right now I have to right a defense of using awesome close reading strategies in youth group and go to bed.


    *Or Orangey could take care of that. She'd probably rock that better than I'll probably end up doing, because I'm fairly satisfied for myself that I don't see much substance in conservative feminism.
    Ha, well I could bust out some Althusser and critique Peguy's 'conservative feminism' from the standpoint that it is a constitutive ideological rhetoric that interpellates women as subjects for the purposes of maintaining a male-run capitalist hegemony. But I think that would be going too far .
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  8. #88
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    A common accusation made against conservative, but not true really. As Edmund Burke himself stated, change can only occur within responsible limits based on the principle of continuity.
    Cultural conservatism is all about preserving culture and/or also about going back to previous culture.. or status quo ante.

    This is conservatism 101 stuff.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Ha, well I could bust out some Althusser and critique Peguy's 'conservative feminism' from the standpoint that it is a constitutive ideological rhetoric that interpellates women as subjects for the purposes of maintaining a male-run capitalist hegemony. But I think that would be going too far .
    That would be interesting to hear, considering that I'm a staunch critic of Capitalism and have been influenced by many strains of socialist and leftist thought. Heck, I could add some of the interesting remarks Slavoj Žižek has made on the matter. Of course there's also Christopher Dawson I could call upon my side, and many others - including the anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Cultural conservatism is all about preserving culture and/or also about going back to previous culture.. or status quo ante.
    Going back to a previous state of affairs would make one a reactionary, not a conservative per se.

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