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  1. #51
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ok but which takes priority: Family and home - or career?
    I hope that Noah prioritizes his family and home over his career, too.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #52
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I hope that Noah prioritizes his family and home over his career, too.
    Of course. Men have an obligation to their families prior to "public life" - since the family is the basic building bloc of society. And the main person who keeps the family together is usually the mother. So I stress again, the mother(and by extension women) have a very powerful and influential role in society - they help keep it together.

    I dont know what exactly is your problem with this notion.

  3. #53
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ok but which takes priority: Family and home - or career?
    They're both important. I need to makey the money to keep the family and home going, AND to be my best well-rounded self to nurture my children and be tender toward my husband. For both of us, family and home take precedence over a career which is in part a means to an end. But that's not all it is for either of us.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #54
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Ironic. Indeed, without my questions attached, it seems like mere sarcasm. But I actually made an inquiry which you have not, and--it seems since I've asked it at least twice now--will not answer.
    You've only asked ONCE to my recollection, and overall the question is just a rather rhetorical trick on your part to score points.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I dont know what exactly is your problem with this notion.
    I don't have a problem with it except that everybody doesn't fit neatly into this particular tableau. Also, it irritates me that you won't answer my questions.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    How about YOU be a stay-at-home parent, since you are so into it (not that there's anything wrong with that, seriously; my mom was a s@hm.), and I will get a PhD in my chosen field and teach at a university?

    Are your contributions to the culture devalued?
    Are mine?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    What about science, politics, and business? What I am asking is, when women have stepped out of their traditional roles in the family and home and made contributions outside of it (particularly in typically "male" fields), are those contributions (and... women?) somehow devalued because they made a choice to do something unconventional? When women are not really "wired" to be at the center of home and family, are they devalued? When men are, are they? Does conservative feminism lock people into roles?
    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You've only asked ONCE to my recollection, and overall the question is just a rather rhetorical trick on your part to score points.

    Twice. And I asked also whether women should be satisfied to stay out of the "man's realm" even if they have valuable inquiries and interests which they have the capacity to pursue.


    And it's not a rhetorical trick--it's a question about this ideology (and that's what it is, just as much as mine is). In conservative feminism, can women's individual contributions outside of family and hearth be considered valuable, even pivotal? Can men's individual contributions within the home which may be considered more "feminine" according to this ideology be seen as equally or even more valuable than some women's?

    This question matters, because what it asks is this: Does "conservative feminism" with its prescribed roles potentially limit the individual potentials of men and women? If it does, is this a positive limit?
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  7. #57
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    For both of us, family and home take precedence over a career which is in part a means to an end.
    Good to hear that. Career is indeed a means to an end, and the end should always be towards the family. One of the basic points I've been trying to make here is that the priority of women from the "Conservative" feminist standpoint is that family takes priority over career.

    Does that necessarily mean an absolute bann on women in the workplace? No. But that doesn't change the fact that the basic essence of womanhood is found within the home. Without that basic foundation, women are not going to get anywhere really and certainly not in poor substitutes like "public life". And furthermore, the public square itself(where "public life" happens) is also built on the foundation of the family(the basic building bloc of society).

    So either way you look at it; women are tied to the family, and this is something women should be very proud of.

  8. #58
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I'm proud to be tied to MY family, because I love them. Not because I'm a woman and that's where I belong. I'm also a radical feminist though, so sucks to your ass-mar.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #59
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post

    So either way you look at it; women are tied to the family, and this is something women should be very proud of.
    If I were a mother and a wife, I would be very proud to be tied to my family--but I will be damned if I marry a man who is not equally tied to my family.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #60
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Twice. And I asked also whether women should be satisfied to stay out of the "man's realm" even if they have valuable inquiries and interests which they have the capacity to pursue.


    And it's not a rhetorical trick--it's a question about this ideology (and that's what it is, just as much as mine is). In conservative feminism, can women's individual contributions outside of family and hearth be considered valuable, even pivotal? Can men's individual contributions within the home which may be considered more "feminine" according to this ideology be seen as equally or even more valuable than some women's?

    This question matters, because what it asks is this: Does "conservative feminism" with its prescribed roles potentially limit the individual potentials of men and women? If it does, is this a positive limit?
    Well you can read my response to Ivy for one thing. Largely your questions amount to attacking strawmen.

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