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  1. #11
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I'm going with defining the objective as "ensuring a fairer, safer, more just, more equitable world for women," which might require us to define a few problems that get in the way of that.

    -lack of equal pay for equal work
    -glass ceilings
    -mommy tracking
    -the biological reality that women can have babies and men can't, therefore resulting in a bodily experience that primarily affects individual women
    -stereotypes about female abilities in male-dominated occupations (even politics)
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    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #12
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I'm going with defining the objective as "ensuring a fairer, safer, more just, more equitable world for women," which might require us to define a few problems that get in the way of that.

    -lack of equal pay for equal work
    -glass ceilings
    -mommy tracking
    -the biological reality that women can have babies and men can't, therefore resulting in a bodily experience that primarily affects individual women
    -stereotypes about female abilities in male-dominated occupations (even politics)
    This seems to be under the assumption that women should be become more like men, and do things men can do. I guess a more "conservative" approach to feminism would stress more the unqiue qualities of women in particularly feminine areas of life, and that these attributes deserve the same amount of dignity and respect as masculine qualities. So men and women are equal, but different.

    The main feminine area of life they tend to doiminate is the home. Nowadays to say this implies you're denegrading female roles. Quite the contrary, the home has always been the main foundation for culture in any authentic sense.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Well, what about the economic reality that families need two incomes to be solvent these days?
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  4. #14
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Sorry, I always get those names mixed up. :redface:



    Yes but by 1980, she revised her views saying that women find the most fufillment within the nuturing of the home.

    She was often at odds with more radical Feminists, stating once

    "I’m at odds with the radical feminists because I’m not anti-marriage and anti-family. I always thought it was dangerous to go against the idea of the family. I don’t even like the phrase ‘women’s liberation’ because that idea of being set free from everything doesn’t seem right to me."
    I think you need to put that in context. Radical feminism is an almost cult-like subgroup of the broad category of 'feminism' that is known for being well and away the most obnoxious one. These are the lesbian separatists, the ones who start all women colonies and write 'man-hating' literature. So yes, Betty Friedan had more of a classical liberal view of feminism than that, and this caused her to butt heads with that part of the movement when it was strong. However that is not to say that she believed domesticity to be part of the innate nature of women, which I don't think is true.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #15
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Well, what about the economic reality that families need two incomes to be solvent these days?
    Yeah and that's a direct result of women entering the workplace. Before, the common demand was for a family living wage. This was a demand shared by both traditionalists and many radicals. A classic example of the former was Pope Leo XIII's encyclical on workers' rights Rerum Novarum.

  6. #16
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    So yes, Betty Friedan had more of a classical liberal view of feminism than that, and this caused her to butt heads with that part of the movement when it was strong. However that is not to say that she believed domesticity to be part of the innate nature of women, which I don't think is true.
    She clearly stated in The Second Stage that a woman's sense of identity is found through "love, nurture, home."

  7. #17
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I can appreciate celebrating distinctly feminine activities and roles, but what about the women who don't want that/don't fit there? What do conservative feminists do with that?

    I would say that I am a very, very moderate feminist when I say that I believe that women should be able to choose their lifestyles--professional, domestic, whatever--without judgment.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I would say that I am a very, very moderate feminist when I say that I believe that women should be able to choose their lifestyles--professional, domestic, whatever--without judgment.
    'Without judgment'? I could agree to 'without impediment', but not to 'without judgment'.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #19
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    If all conservative feminism does is reinforce and celebrate traditional feminine roles, what is the social objective? Does it just elevate women from second-class to people who make real (domestic) contributions? Is there any way that conservative feminism would strive towards more fairness/safety/justice for women?
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    'Without judgment'? I could agree to 'without impediment', but not to 'without judgment'.
    Why do you have a problem with "without judgment"? Why should a woman who wants to be a stay-at-home-mom be judged for that? Or why should a woman who wants to be in the army be judged for that? Or why should a woman who wants to be a CEO of a major corporation be judged for that? I agree, "without impediment" is good. But why not without judgment too?
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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