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  1. #91
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Nice theory, doesn't work in reality. The basic point I'm making here is that one serves as the basic foundation for the other. Without that foundation, the rest isn't really worth shit.
    Let's not talk about reality here when you are the one who wants to overturn the values of 'modernity'.

    And about your 'foundation' theory; I am to understand that since the family in your view creates the conditions of culture, and all public and intellectual affairs occur within culture, then the undermining of the family would make public and intellectual affairs cease to be. And since women participating in public life and not family life, or even partly in public life and family life, undermines the family foundation of society, then women cannot in your theory participate in the public life that they serve as the very foundation for. This sounds liberating indeed.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #92
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Going back to a previous state of affairs would make one a reactionary, not a conservative per se.
    Those terms are very intertwined. A conservative can be pro status quo ante, but they don't necessarily have to be.

  3. #93
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That would be interesting to hear, considering that I'm a staunch critic of Capitalism and have been influenced by many strains of socialist and leftist thought. Heck, I could add some of the interesting remarks Slavoj Žižek has made on the matter. Of course there's also Christopher Dawson I could call upon my side, and many others - including the anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon.
    Attempts to intimidate me with your proclaimed erudition?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #94
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Let's not talk about reality here when you are the one who wants to overturn the values of 'modernity'.
    What can I say, I'm a Post-Modernist.

    And about your 'foundation' theory; I am to understand that since the family in your view creates the conditions of culture, and all public and intellectual affairs occur within culture, then the undermining of the family would make public and intellectual affairs cease to be.
    No, they don't necessarily cease to be per se; but their very nature is severely comprimised.

    And since women participating in public life and not family life, or even partly in public life and family life, undermines the family foundation of society, then women cannot in your theory participate in the public life that they serve as the very foundation for. This sounds liberating indeed.
    You're missing the point on so many levels. And unfortunately I'm simply too tired to get into this at any significant level. It's past 1:00 AM.

    Attempts to intimidate me with your proclaimed erudition?
    No more than what you're doing my dear.

  5. #95
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    What can I say, I'm a Post-Modernist.
    Hehe, doesn't that by definition make you a bad conservative these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You're missing the point on so many levels. And unfortunately I'm simply too tired to get into this at any significant level. It's past 1:00 AM.
    Gute Nacht.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No more than what you're doing my dear.
    Don't you know that the use of patronizing endearments offends my feminist sensibilities !
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #96
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Hehe, doesn't that by definition make you a bad conservative these days?
    No not really. There are many parallels between conservatism and postmodernism. There's quite a lot of literature about this, and I'll be more than willing to share. I've even commented on this elsewhere before as well(online and in my journals).

    Even religiously speaking, there's the Postmodern theological perspective called Radical Orthodoxy which operates on similar principles. Postmodern themes were constant in the theology of Pope John Paul II even.


    Gute Nacht.
    ????????? ????

  7. #97
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No not really. There are many parallels between conservatism and postmodernism. There's quite a lot of literature about this, and I'll be more than willing to share. I've even commented on this elsewhere before as well(online and in my journals).

    Even religiously speaking, there's the Postmodern theological perspective called Radical Orthodoxy which operates on similar principles. Postmodern themes were constant in the theology of Pope John Paul II even.
    That's interesting. I guess I can sort of see where there would be parallels. But I was referring more to all of the conservative outcry against the humanities in the eighties and nineties when the likes of Derrida, etc... were in fashion.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #98
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    I haven't read the whole thread...

    Has she called HERSELF a femininst! If not, how can anyone be on her case about what kind of feminist she is.
    If she has, my apologies...
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  9. #99
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Oh, for chrissakes...

    I define "feminist" as someone who believes in the inherent equality (reflected through equal rights and legal protections) of men and women, and that there should be no legal impediments to either gender in pursuing jobs of their choice. "Conservative" and "libertarian" feminist do not believe that abortion, affirmative action and various other "left-wing" causes (individuals will make individual exceptions) are desirable or necessary to these ends, and are in fact injurious to the basic rights of other individuals. Disagreements on any of these particular issues do not disqualify someone from speaking in favor of "women's rights" any more than disagreeing with affirmative action policies disqualifies someone from speaking in favor of "civil rights"-hence, righteous indignation that Palin would "dare" speak about women's rights is silly and highly revealing.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Oh, for chrissakes...

    I define "feminist" as someone who believes in the inherent equality (reflected through equal rights and legal protections) of men and women, and that there should be no legal impediments to either gender in pursuing jobs of their choice. "Conservative" and "libertarian" feminist do not believe that abortion, affirmative action and various other "left-wing" causes (individuals will make individual exceptions) are desirable or necessary to these ends, and are in fact injurious to the basic rights of other individuals. Disagreements on any of these particular issues do not disqualify someone from speaking in favor of "women's rights" any more than disagreeing with affirmative action policies disqualifies someone from speaking in favor of "civil rights"-hence, righteous indignation that Palin would "dare" speak about women's rights is silly and highly revealing.
    Oh, fine.

    I concede that it is melodramatic--YEA, even revealing of bias--for me to have commented on Sarah Palin "daring" to mention women's rights. It is possible for right-wingers to be for equality of men and women.

    But what's Sarah Palin going to do for women? If she's going to BRING UP women's rights, how is she going to protect them/enhance their expression? Why should anyone vote for McCain/Palin and include their stances on women's rights as a reason for that choice?
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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