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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Yes, I generally agree with you when you're not playing up the name calling. We've got a lot of problems in this country. The education system has really become nothing more than a tool to dumb us all down, and it has been too effective. Too many damn people who just don't want to give the time of day to what matters, to their damn responsibilities in this country to be informed about what's going on and intelligently exercising their power in the political system. That's a big reason why things have gone as far down the beaten path as they have. But I can't just sit here pissed off at everyone because they never bothered to listen to any bit of sense I, or any other informed individual, have had to say. *OUR complacency as Americans has led to the growth of this monstrosity we call government, which has supported the holograms of wealth that our economy is now built on. In reality its all become so large, so entangled, so corrupt, and so out of control that you can't blame everyone for not knowing everything.

    At this stage, putting everything back in the order would require a massive shift in the minds of the average person. After that, it would require something of a bloody revolution to set things back on the rails, because I'm fairly confident the reduction in the size of government and the overhaul to the economic system that would follow would not be met with open arms by the people who have the most influence over the system.
    If it came down to the meritocracy vs. the democracy, I'd take the meritocracy any day.

    The power someone wielded should be only related to their conscience and their intelligence.

    Politicians have neither.

    But we don't need any bloodshed. The revolution will take place in our schools. Not on the streets.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  2. #22
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Do you have the merit to decide what is best for 300 million people? Have you ever led one of the greatest companies of nearly 30000 people to amazing profits and have any evidence whatsoever that you know what the hell you're talking about?

    Because Hank Paulson does, and you don't.
    Hasn't Paulson been saying for a year and half now that the economy is fine, despite the warnings and signs otherwise?

    He either
    a) doesn't know as much as you think or
    b) was lying to keep the facade going for as long as he could.

    Neither option gives me the confidence that he deserves a $250 billion (who are we kidding - $350 billion) blank check.

    It's foolish to think that the same type of corruption that played such a large role in causing this mess isn't going to continue as people fight for their share of the bailout package.

  3. #23
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    This "same type of corruption" you speak of is called capitalism. The more you regulate markets, the more socialistic they become. Free-market capitalism is what drives everything. And when the market gets drunk, the market has a hangover.

    But nobody likes the hangovers so they take medicine for it.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Our dollar is going to tank so badly, and it will never rise again given the direction they're taking us in. The price of goods and oil is going to innevitably rise because of it. The ridiculous amount of money they are going to BORROW and PRINT to carry out this bailout (well over a trillion going by the words of many economists and the typical spending decisions of the government) is going to rock the ship like hell. People around the world in this global economy are waking up to the fact that our money represents no real value. The only reason we haven't been dropped into the hole already is because so many countries depend on us to buy their goods and services, and our crash would mean THEIR crash. What this means is (as I said in the bailout topic) the beginning of a new era where the dollar is no longer the world standard, and many more significant changes along with it that most people aren't going to like. Even Putin has said this for Christ's sake. Even Chavez is dancing around in Venezuela, singing on about how socialist Bush has become, and how far down he's driving the country.

    i remember reading articles and blogs like this in 2005 about the dollar and its value.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    This "same type of corruption" you speak of is called capitalism. The more you regulate markets, the more socialistic they become. Free-market capitalism is what drives everything. And when the market gets drunk, the market has a hangover.

    But nobody likes the hangovers so they take medicine for it.
    Thing is, they are asking for the medicine from the same people they pissed on while drunk. Seems like the people giving the medicine should have demanded a bit more for it.

  6. #26
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Congressman speaks out about the fear tactics being used against them.

    YouTube - Rep. Brad Sherman Martial Law

    Apparently so. All the fearmongering and and pressure from the president, the treasury, the banks, and all the people responsible for this mess seems to have been the driving force behind the passing of the bailout bill; despite THOUSANDS of calls to the white house from the public inanimously against the bill. Despite HUNDREDS of the best economists and scholars telling them directly that this bill is a horrible horrible move. Despite the resistance of a great number of the politicians themselves. Every American should be outraged by what is going on right now.
    Right and wrong is not about the number.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Right and wrong is not about the number.
    Politicians are supposed to carry out the wishes of their voters, despite what they think may be "right" or wrong (and I would you don't have any faith in the judgment of most politicians ). If the majority of their constituents want one thing, then that congressman/senator/what have you should be voting and making policies in accordance with that. That is where right and wrong is about numbers.

  8. #28
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Right and wrong is not about the number.
    The problem is that no one knows if this is the right or wrong action. So far, it appears that this bill isn't fixing anything. It may be too early, but initial word is that the credit markets aren't loosening as they don't know if it's enough money:

    Credit markets to Washington: Bailout isn't enough: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post

    Here's the thing--trickle down economics may or may not work in good times since the rich spend some of that on things rich people spend money on. Mansions, private jets, yachts, etc...

    However--trickle down economics in bad times doesn't trickle down. It RUSHES down. The first people screwed when the guys at the top get screwed aren't the rich Wall Street plutocrats. By not bailing out Wall Street, you would have done NOTHING to those big rich guys, because guess what:
    I thought this was supposed to be a finance lesson. There's no such thing as trickle-down economics....and yeah your delivery is horrible. If you're going to insult people, at least be succinct.
    I don't wanna!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    The problem is that no one knows if this is the right or wrong action. So far, it appears that this bill isn't fixing anything. It may be too early, but initial word is that the credit markets aren't loosening as they don't know if it's enough money:

    Credit markets to Washington: Bailout isn't enough: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance
    It seems a lot of people don't get it--at all.

    This wasn't a miracle cure. This is like the surgery for a blown-out ACL ala Donovan McNabb or Tom Brady.

    The rehab still takes a damn long time. So does recovering from a hangover from what I hear.

    The alternative, however, was utter disaster.

    Mostly what's important is that our entire financial system runs on CONFIDENCE. I lend you money if I'm confident you will pay me back. If I don't have that confidence, I'm going to keep my dollars to myself.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

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