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  1. #71
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Yes, and when Obama supports every gun control measure proposed, like the unconstitutional handgun bans in various locations, I get a slight irked as well. Basically, with this and other issues, I really hate the philosophy:

    "We are the democratic legislators. We would like to make it illegal for you to do x, and we'll do it for you, only much worse."
    Yeah, I get it. I was really just responding to Oberon's indictment of [my] feminism as silly.
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  2. #72
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Yeah, I get it. I was really just responding to Oberon's indictment of [my] feminism as silly.
    It IS silly. What is even sillier is that you can't even see how silly it is, thus proving Oberon's point. Out of curiosity, have you ever said (after an election) something like, "I can't believe he/she won...no one I know voted for him/her!"

  3. #73
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    We know that she's anti-abortion, and there is a question as to whether she made any attempt to stop her police chief from forcing women to pay for their own rape kits.
    I'm not a Palin fan, but this 'rape kit controversy' is a pile of BS. The practice was in place before she became mayor. I think it's very likely that she never knew about it.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #74
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    It IS silly. What is even sillier is that you can't even see how silly it is, thus proving Oberon's point. Out of curiosity, have you ever said (after an election) something like, "I can't believe he/she won...no one I know voted for him/her!"
    Until recently, I was a liberal living in Eastern NC. No. Now I live in a liberal oasis.


    In any case, whatever your opinion is, I don't think that my objection to Sarah Palin as the "feminist choice" is silly given the fact that she is anti-abortion. In addition, no matter what her personal views are (she says she's for equal pay/equal work, which just makes good sense), if her job is to uphold McCain's policies, she will not be upholding even women's basic work rights because he doesn't.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #75
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Until recently, I was a liberal living in Eastern NC. No. Now I live in a liberal oasis.


    In any case, whatever your opinion is, I don't think that my objection to Sarah Palin as the "feminist choice" is silly given the fact that she is anti-abortion. In addition, no matter what her personal views are (she says she's for equal pay/equal work, which just makes good sense), if her job is to uphold McCain's policies, she will not be upholding even women's basic work rights because he doesn't.
    Why do you want abortion?
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  6. #76
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    In any case, whatever your opinion is, I don't think that my objection to Sarah Palin as the "feminist choice" is silly given the fact that she is anti-abortion.
    ...in other words, you think a woman has to be a liberal woman in order to qualify as a feminist. Your choice of words (how "dare" she?) is very revealing in that regard, and implies a certain amount of contempt for someone who disagrees with you on this issue.

  7. #77
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    Admittedly, I didn't have a high opinion of her. I was watching more for the entertainment value, but I consider myself a fairly objective critic since I'm not emotionally invested in any of the candidates.

    It just sounded as if the McCain campaign said, "Okay, here are your talking points. When in doubt just refer back to them. Do not stray from these points! At all!" So, she didn't make any huge errors, but it felt like all she brought to the table was rhetoric and campaign slogans.
    Exactly.

    Based on the Katie Couric interview, I think this wasn't just a matter of strategy options either. She required this approach in order not to embarass herself again. I don't think that speaks well for her intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    Agreed. I think Biden got a bit too complex at times, and he had me scratching my head a bit.
    They knew it would be time consuming for him to have to explain the "procedural vote" thing, but Biden was forced to do so anyway, in order to counter such claims, and the related lie that Obama would go after people making 42K, taxwise..
    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    I was watching on CNN and they had a graph of uncommitted men and women voters from Ohio. I noticed that when Palin started speaking, her approval ratings started to go down. I was wondering if this is because she started most rebuttals with, "I wanna go back to talking about x" instead of actually answering the addressed question.

    However, as she began talking those lines went way up. It's like her goal was to speak in simple language and stray away from the question at hand until people actually forgot what it was. I think that worked.
    I could understand if ( based on this principle ) a strategy was based on this, and a candidate purposely dumbed themself down. In Palin's case, I don't think this was the only consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Yeah, I get it. I was really just responding to Oberon's indictment of [my] feminism as silly.
    I understood what you were saying. I'd be curious to find out more about "conservative feminism", too, as this is a movement I've heard little about, up until now.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  8. #78
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    I watched the debate, I think Palin avoided as much as she could, and what she did answer sounded like she was reading off a card of "republican points" rather than actually her thinking. However, I dislike both Palin and McCain, so my opinion isn't especially valid...
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  9. #79
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    ...in other words, you think a woman has to be a liberal woman in order to qualify as a feminist. Your choice of words (how "dare" she?) is very revealing in that regard, and implies a certain amount of contempt for someone who disagrees with you on this issue.
    I was melodramatic, but I do wonder very seriously and passionately what Sarah Palin would do for women. It is NOT ENOUGH for me that she is a woman who is close to the presidency. I want to know what she's going to do to help women. How is she going to make this a more just, fair, and equitable world for women, beyond existing in a position of power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Why do you want abortion?
    I don't want there not to be abortion, which I think is a little different. It is important that abortion be safe and legal... and certainly not kept from women who have been victims of rape or incest. I am actually pro life/pro choice, but I have no right to impose my pro-life beliefs on another woman's womb.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #80
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I
    I don't want there not to be abortion, which I think is a little different. It is important that abortion be safe and legal... and certainly not kept from women who have been victims of rape or incest. I am actually pro life/pro choice, but I have no right to impose my pro-life beliefs on another woman's womb.
    Can you elaborate on what your pro-life beliefs are?
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

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