User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 33

  1. #1
    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    13,918

    Default They go all in for 2020 on single payer. I couldn't be happier.

    From politico, written by a Dem strategist (with whom I disagree mightily): The Single-Payer Insanity

    Please make this all a part of your platform in '18 and '20.

    Pretty please.
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

    8w9 sx/so
    Likes SpankyMcFly liked this post

  2. #2

    Default

    Are you serious?!

    This?!

    This is what makes you happy?!

    I'm sorry man, I hope life picks up again soon.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

  3. #3
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE None
    Posts
    6,430

    Default

    I doubt the sincerity of most Dem politicians in actually supporting single payer, outside of Bernie. They will give lip service but will not oppose Big Pharma, Big Insurance, or Big Hospital.

    Plus, the issue is actually a winner for the Dems, as opposed to all the identity politics stuff.

    The health insurance marketplace is awful and most people hate it. They have good feelings for their own doctor and maybe their local hospital, but hate their insurance company.

    Pricing is out of control due to the bad design of Obamacare.

    People are hurting due to the cost of health insurance. Obamacare hurt a lot of working class and middle class families. Single payer is cheaper than the current system, especially with price controls.

    If Trump were smarter, he would take BernieCare and make it his own. Doing so would remove a huge issue Democrats could exploit while actually helping the people of the country, especially his voters. Much better than doing amnesty for DACA (which will lose him a large share of his voters).
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

  4. #4
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE None
    Posts
    6,430

    Default

    Here is Bernie's funding idea for single payer: https://www.sanders.senate.gov/downl...dicare-for-all
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so
    Likes yama liked this post

  5. #5
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,910

    Default

    As recently as 6 years ago, Dem supporters got pissed if you described the Dem party as socialist. Of course I was right back then as well. I like that Bernie proposed this because he's at least honest about being a socialist. Today, the Dem party is a far left wing-nut party that hates the traditional American values of individualism and personal liberty.
    Liberty means the ability to say "No thanks, perhaps later. I'm gonna go take a nap now."
    Likes SpankyMcFly, anticlimatic liked this post

  6. #6
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Here is Bernie's funding idea for single payer: Senate.gov - Unauthorized
    Only thing I'd like to avoid is the taxation on Capital Gains and Dividends (maybe allow the first x amount at the old rate) since it fucks up upper-middle class investment/retirement strategies but otherwise this looks fine.

    Medicare for All really needs to be argued as a business and entrepreneurial benefit first and foremost. Releasing employers of the burden in providing healthcare options to workers is a complete blessing, small businesses don't pay a dime until you're over 2 million in payroll, the workforce is healthier/misses less time, and the personal risk/cost of entrepreneurship is alleviated which will absolutely lead to more growth. At the cost of what? Corporate and personal tax rates going up a bit?

    The biggest risk is honestly...healthcare is such a huge industry in the US, it will be devastated if this goes through. The economic systems around healthcare are so complex and intertwined with university, research, and other governmental systems that disrupting it is bound to incur 2nd and 3rd order effects we won't know about for a while and will be tricky to handle. I'd love to see research on that.



  7. #7
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE None
    Posts
    6,430

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Only thing I'd like to avoid is the taxation on Capital Gains and Dividends (maybe allow the first x amount at the old rate) since it fucks up upper-middle class investment/retirement strategies but otherwise this looks fine.

    Medicare for All really needs to be argued as a business and entrepreneurial benefit first and foremost. Releasing employers of the burden in providing healthcare options to workers is a complete blessing, small businesses don't pay a dime until you're over 2 million in payroll, the workforce is healthier/misses less time, and the personal risk/cost of entrepreneurship is alleviated which will absolutely lead to more growth. At the cost of what? Corporate and personal tax rates going up a bit?

    The biggest risk is honestly...healthcare is such a huge industry in the US, it will be devastated if this goes through. The economic systems around healthcare are so complex and intertwined with university, research, and other governmental systems that disrupting it is bound to incur 2nd and 3rd order effects we won't know about for a while and will be tricky to handle. I'd love to see research on that.
    There is a fiscally conservative position on this for sure.

    It would lower medical costs, eliminate the overhead costs of insurance, lower costs for providers, lower costs for care, expand coverage, reduce the burden on business, and effectively make it better for everyone except the rent seekers at Big Pharma, Big Health Insurance, and Big Hospitals, and those folks have been making monopoly profits, screwing everyone else.

    It might take time, but Trump would be very wise to work with Bernie on this. It is much better politically and for the country than any of the Republican plans in Congress. If he does not, the Dems will have a strong issue for 2020.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so
    Likes JocktheMotie liked this post

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    From politico, written by a Dem strategist (with whom I disagree mightily): The Single-Payer Insanity

    Please make this all a part of your platform in '18 and '20.

    Pretty please.
    Because republicans push for...people that cant afford health insurance should just suffer worked so well
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    As recently as 6 years ago, Dem supporters got pissed if you described the Dem party as socialist. Of course I was right back then as well. I like that Bernie proposed this because he's at least honest about being a socialist. Today, the Dem party is a far left wing-nut party that hates the traditional American values of individualism and personal liberty.
    Because it's a stretch for a lot of more moderate democrats. In Bernie's case (who has openly admitted being Democratic Socialist), it's different. But you take a lot of the democrats in congress and they're basically big business liberals, yes, indebted to the capitalist system, however they feel a lot of regulation and government oversight of the market is warranted. However, oversight and regulation of private enterprise is not the same as state socialism.

    Mind you, I'm not defending them, just playing devil's advocate as well as correcting you on a common and often incorrect assumption of the right. It's just as false as calling all Republicans lower case l libertarians.

  10. #10
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic
    Mind you, I'm not defending them, just playing devil's advocate as well as correcting you on a common and often incorrect assumption of the right. It's just as false as calling all Republicans lower case l libertarians.
    There are maybe 3 libertarian Republicans in Congress but well over 100 socialists on the Dem side.
    Liberty means the ability to say "No thanks, perhaps later. I'm gonna go take a nap now."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO