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  1. #1
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Default The North Korea Problem

    North Korea Claims Test of Hydrogen Bomb for Long-Range Missile a Success

    In a televised statement, North Korea described the underground explosion, which triggered a large earthquake, as a “perfect success in the test of a hydrogen bomb for an ICBM.” Pyongyang said “the creditability of the operation of the nuclear warhead is fully guaranteed.”
    How did we get here?

    CLINTON APPROVES A PLAN TO GIVE AID TO NORTH KOREANS

    WASHINGTON, Oct. 18— President Clinton approved a plan today to arrange more than $4 billion in energy aid to North Korea during the next decade in return for a commitment from the country's hard-line Communist leadership to freeze and gradually dismantle its nuclear weapons development program.

    "This agreement will help achieve a longstanding and vital American objective -- an end to the threat of nuclear proliferation on the Korean Peninsula," Mr. Clinton said this afternoon, after his top foreign policy advisers described the details of an enormously complex agreement struck with North Korea late Monday.
    So ex-President Carter negotiated the deal and President Clinton promised an end to nuclear proliferation in Korea. Should we ask N. Korea for the $4 billion back?

    How should the world and specifically the USA deal with the current North Korea problem? Should we try to enlist the aid of the Chinese? Continue with sanctions or should we pre-emptively strike and hope to blow up that "crazy fat kid"? Should we send Jimmy Carter to negotiate another nuclear deal?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    So none of this blame falls on Trump. All of this blame falls on Carter and Clinton, both (gasp) Democrats (amazing that you left out Regan and Bush). If you actually want to discuss the North Korea problem in the scope of the entire problem, go back to the beginning of the problem. 1953 the armistice was signed with no treaty until a peaceful settlement has been achieved. A peaceful settlement has never been achieved. So place the blame on every American president since Eisenhower for kicking the can down the road and don't forget to include the several Republican presidents that did the same thing.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I think it most sensible you blame the Democrats and hope for the best.

  4. #4
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee
    All of this blame falls on Carter and Clinton, both (gasp) Democrats (amazing that you left out Regan and Bush).
    Pretty much. N. Korea didn't become a nuclear power under Reagan or Bush, Sr. I doubt Reagan would've agreed to such a stupid deal with a rogue regime. Obama's nuclear deal with Iran is similarly doomed to fail.
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    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Pretty much. N. Korea didn't become a nuclear power under Reagan or Bush, Sr. I doubt Reagan would've agreed to such a stupid deal with a rogue regime. Obama's nuclear deal with Iran is similarly doomed to fail.
    So this is just a proclamation that all Democrats are at fault for the N. Korea problem. You should change the title of the thread.
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  6. #6
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    So none of this blame falls on Trump. All of this blame falls on Carter and Clinton, both (gasp) Democrats (amazing that you left out Regan and Bush). If you actually want to discuss the North Korea problem in the scope of the entire problem, go back to the beginning of the problem. 1953 the armistice was signed with no treaty until a peaceful settlement has been achieved. A peaceful settlement has never been achieved. So place the blame on every American president since Eisenhower for kicking the can down the road and don't forget to include the several Republican presidents that did the same thing.
    Not to mention that out of those two Bush Jr. actually had a shoot at this but he decided to go into Iraq. The irony is that excuse was searching for WMDs.


    However the truth is that everybody screwed up here: all american presidents, China and Russia, UN, rogue scientists etc. This is the problem that was slowly progressing for decades and no one dared to do something about it. As I said collapse of Communism is more of a concept that is invented by the media than hard fact.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    Not to mention that out of those two Bush Jr. actually had a shoot at this but he decided to go into Iraq. The irony is that excuse was searching for WMDs.


    However the truth is that everybody screwed up here: all american presidents, China and Russia, UN, rogue scientists etc. This is the problem that was slowly progressing for decades and no one dared to do something about it. As I said collapse of Communism is more of a concept that is invented by the media than hard fact.
    Of course, many people dropped the ball. But you're now dealing with a delusional conservative faction in the US, just like the OP confirmed. It does kind of make you think - all that "alpha male" bullshit they feed men, that some men lap right up - it certainly doesn't contribute to stability on any level and it's currently creating a world of problems. These problems seem to improve greatly under more intelligent, less impulsive, mentally stable leadership. This is why it's futile for anyone to waste time looking to the US for leadership or assistance for the time being - there is none.
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  8. #8
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Of course, many people dropped the ball. But you're now dealing with a delusional conservative faction in the US, just like the OP confirmed. It does kind of make you think - all that "alpha male" bullshit they feed men, that some men lap right up - it certainly doesn't contribute to stability on any level and it's currently creating a world of problems. These problems seem to improve greatly under more intelligent, less impulsive, mentally stable leadership. This is why it's futile for anyone to waste time looking to the US for leadership or assistance for the time being - there is none.

    Don't worry I can clearly see how this whole thread is biased in it's foundation. While in fact there is quite a number of sides that are to blame for this and therefore you can't pinpoint into specific individuals.

    Btw I personally experienced the difference between stabile and impulsive leadership myself and I can tell the difference.

  9. #9
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Whenever a Democrat screws up, we get the usual "everyone is to blame' excuse. The NK debacle lies squarely at the feet of President Clinton because he was in charge when this happened; he didn't want to deal with it, so he kicked the can down the road. Obama did the same with Iran.

    I'm very interested in seeing how President Trump handles this. We have a crazed fat kid with nukes who's already threatened to use them on the USA. I don't expect China to help us in any way. Basically, we're on our own as usual.

    My advice to Trump: send an aircraft carrier or two and some nuclear subs and surround NK indefinitely until this thing blows over, if it ever does. If you have a shot at killing Kim Jong-Un, take it.
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  10. #10
    Problem? Grand Admiral Crunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Whenever a Democrat screws up, we get the usual "everyone is to blame' excuse. The NK debacle lies squarely at the feet of President Clinton because he was in charge when this happened; he didn't want to deal with it, so he kicked the can down the road. Obama did the same with Iran.

    I'm very interested in seeing how President Trump handles this. We have a crazed fat kid with nukes who's already threatened to use them on the USA. I don't expect China to help us in any way. Basically, we're on our own as usual.

    My advice to Trump: send an aircraft carrier or two and some nuclear subs and surround NK indefinitely until this thing blows over, if it ever does. If you have a shot at killing Kim Jong-Un, take it.
    What if he's not actually making these decisions or running the country? My theory has been that he's a captive figurehead.

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