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  1. #1
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Default Iceland population with Down syndrome 'disappearing'

    Iceland population with Down syndrome 'disappearing' as nearly 100 per cent abort Downs babies

    CBS news correspondent Elaine Quijano spoke with Icelandic geneticist Kari Stefansson, the founder of a genetic group named deCODE Genetics, which looks at the people of Iceland's genomes. He told Quijano, "We have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society."
    I can take either position on this. I'm sure raising a Downs syndrome child is very difficult and I wouldn't fault someone for choosing abortion. I do wonder if the government or health services people are pressuring people to abort; that would be wrong, imo. I hope they're not doing it for some stupid genetic purity reason.

    In the United States, more than 67 percent of women who are told that their unborn child may have Down syndrome choose an abortion, with some organisations reporting a higher number, 85 to 90 percent.
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    militat omnis amans magpie's Avatar
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    This is eugenics. A baby with down syndrome neither endangers the life of the mother nor kills the child. People just abort these babies because they don't want to raise, in their minds, a "retard." Someone with down syndrome has just as much of a right to exist as someone without it. Yes, it would require a lot to raise a down syndrome kid. If you don't like that, don't have kids. It takes a lot to raise a "normal" kid too.

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    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    My oldest boys play baseball in a league for kids with disabilities. There is a large variety of disabilities including Down's. The boy with Down's is an amazing young man, full of love and happiness. It really is a crime against humanity to abort babies due to Down's.....
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    Senior Member Cat Brainz's Avatar
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    Its a sad thing to hear that a large number of down syndrome babies are aborted. While I can understand that it may not be for everyone and that it can be hard to raise them at the end of the day any kid will be hard work regardless of mental or physical health. I would suggest if you want control over which disabilities your children have so to speak adopting may be a good idea as in some ways its a win/win. You get to control what you want to a degree plus a kid gets a home.

    I have a few relatives who have had disabled children and they are some of the best children you could possibly ask for.

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    Problem? Grand Admiral Crunch's Avatar
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    Sounds kind of dystopian. United States isn't as monolithic as Iceland, so it would be harder to convince everyone to go along with it. I'm sure there's plenty of people who would like to implement whatever program they have to convince people to have abortions. I saw this story in various places being titled something about Iceland "achieving" "0% Down Syndrome births," which seems a positive spin on it.
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    Senior Member Crystal Winter Dream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    This is eugenics. A baby with down syndrome neither endangers the life of the mother nor kills the child. People just abort these babies because they don't want to raise, in their minds, a "retard." Someone with down syndrome has just as much of a right to exist as someone without it. Yes, it would require a lot to raise a down syndrome kid. If you don't like that, don't have kids. It takes a lot to raise a "normal" kid too.
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    I have heard many an insensitive person suggest if a mother is known to have the possibility of a disabled child, to abort the child. I think it is absolutely awful...In the end perhaps pre-natal testing for these sorts of disabilities are used for evils...it is quite sad...
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    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    It's not like down syndrome isn't a significant problem, though.

    I suppose some might say that it's wrong to use this as a basis to "deny someone the chance at life", but I reject that argument in all circumstances when it comes to abortion. Arguably every moment you are doing anything other than having unprotected, heterosexual sex, you are "denying" a life.

    I would be against harm toward those who presently exist that have Down syndrome. But I see no reason why we have to let the condition continue to come into existence.

    And it's not like this is even an intrusive mandate from an authority anything. This is women making decisions for themselves about their own pregnancies.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Iceland population with Down syndrome 'disappearing' as nearly 100 per cent abort Downs babies



    I can take either position on this. I'm sure raising a Downs syndrome child is very difficult and I wouldn't fault someone for choosing abortion. I do wonder if the government or health services people are pressuring people to abort; that would be wrong, imo. I hope they're not doing it for some stupid genetic purity reason.
    I'm not sure there's a problem with the "genetic purity reason" if its basically genetic "hygiene", I think its a shame it cant be discovered before the stage at which abortion is a thing but this is kind of what I think of when I think of eugenics, the more sorts of genetic "malware" that can be eliminated from the human genome through freely choosen action the better.

    Its just another thing they got right there along with locking up the bankers instead of bailing their broke, fraudulent asses out and proper tax and spend policies.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's not like down syndrome isn't a significant problem, though.

    I suppose some might say that it's wrong to use this as a basis to "deny someone the chance at life", but I reject that argument in all circumstances when it comes to abortion. Arguably every moment you are doing anything other than having unprotected, heterosexual sex, you are "denying" a life.

    I would be against harm toward those who presently exist that have Down syndrome. But I see no reason why we have to let the condition continue to come into existence.

    And it's not like this is even an intrusive mandate from an authority anything. This is women making decisions for themselves about their own pregnancies.
    I see your logic, and while not wanting to or wishing to legally sanction or prohibit access to abortion in any way what so ever, I'm not sure there's equivalence between what you describe as "denying life" and aborting a fetus.

    Its a little like when Mike Moore made the argument in an early one of his books that male masturbation or any sort of ejaculation not resulting in a pregnancy was the same as abortion, nope, maybe its the same was a period, ie monthly cycle being concluded without pregnancy, but that's about it.

    The interention stops the natural development which will result in life and very possibly the birth of a baby, its strange because most scientific minded individuals will make judgements based only on evidence but not in that instance, anyway, I actually think of most of the abortion debate as a mistake, or at the very least it should be construed as a MASSIVE drive for contraception, family planning and just a bit of fucking restraint on everyones part (but I'd begin with males because I am a male and have managed rightly to avoid any unwanted pregnancies). Which I know makes me heretical in terms of anyone but thems the breaks.
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  10. #10
    Problem? Grand Admiral Crunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not sure there's a problem with the "genetic purity reason" if its basically genetic "hygiene", I think its a shame it cant be discovered before the stage at which abortion is a thing
    I think people can find out about abnormalities at 12 weeks of pregnancy.

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