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  1. #1
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Default Nonviolent protest works

    From today's NYT: How to Make Fun of Nazis - NYTimes.com

    ....
    But undeterred, the neo-Nazis returned. So in 2014, the town tried a different tactic: humorous subversion.

    The campaign, called Rechts Gegen Rechts — the Right Against the Right — turned the march into Germany’s “most involuntary walkathon.” For every meter the neo-Nazis marched, local residents and businesses pledged to donate 10 euros (then equivalent to about $12.50) to a program that helps people leave right-wing extremist groups, called EXIT Deutschland.

    They turned the march into a mock sporting event. Someone stenciled onto the street “start,” a halfway mark and a finish line, as if it were a race. Colorful signs with silly slogans festooned the route. “If only the Führer knew!” read one. “Mein Mampf!” (my munch) read another that hung over a table of bananas. A sign at the end of the route thanked the marchers for their contribution to the anti-Nazi cause — €10,000 (close to $12,000). And someone showered the marchers with rainbow confetti at the finish line.

    The approach has spread to several other German towns and one in Sweden (where it was billed as Nazis Against Nazis).

    ....

    Violence directed at white nationalists only fuels their narrative of victimhood — of a hounded, soon-to-be-minority who can’t exercise their rights to free speech without getting pummeled. It also probably helps them recruit. And more broadly, if violence against minorities is what you find repugnant in neo-Nazi rhetoric, then “you are using the very force you’re trying to overcome,” Michael Nagler, the founder of the Peace and Conflict Studies program at the University of California, Berkeley, told me.
    ....

    Most important perhaps, violence is just not as effective as nonviolence. In their 2011 book, “Why Civil Resistance Works,” Dr. Stephan and Erica Chenoweth examined how struggles are won. They found that in over 320 conflicts between 1900 and 2006, nonviolent resistance was more than twice as effective as violent resistance in achieving change. And nonviolent struggles were resolved much sooner than violent ones.

    The main reason, Dr. Stephan explained to me, was that nonviolent struggles attracted more allies more quickly. Violent struggles, on the other hand, often repelled people and dragged on for years.

    Their findings highlight what we probably already intuit about protest: It’s a performance not just for the people you may be protesting against but also for everyone else who may be persuaded to join your side.
    .....

    Those images also highlight two points emphasized by Stephanie Van Hook, the executive director of the Metta Center for Nonviolence. First, nonviolence is a discipline, and as with any discipline, you need to practice to master it. Nonviolence training was a fixture of the movement. Even the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and his companions rehearsed in basements, role playing and insulting one another to prepare for what was to come.

    And second, sometimes being on the receiving end of violence is the whole point. That’s how you expose the hypocrisy and rot you’re struggling against. They attack unprovoked. You don’t counterattack. You’re hurt. The world sees. Hearts change. It takes tremendous courage: Your body ends up being the canvas that bears the evidence of the violence you’re fighting against.

    ....

    By undercutting the gravitas white supremacists are trying to accrue, humorous counterprotests may blunt the events’ usefulness for recruitment. Brawling with bandanna-clad antifas may seem romantic to some disaffected young men, but being mocked by clowns? Probably not so much.
    ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

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  2. #2
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    Non violent protest is the only kind of protest that works. The rest just strengthens the opposition. Anyone who uses violence to protest things they don't like is not only vile, but also stupid.

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    This is a very good idea, it just goes to show that the Germans are streets ahead of the US, maybe even liberals per se if "right against the right" meant political right against the far right as opposed to moral right against the far right.

    I think A LOT of people dont get that street fighting only stokes the right and challenging and confronting only convinces them of their relevance and self-importance.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon
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    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    We are well past nonviolent and you well know it.
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

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    You can't recork that bottle
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You can't recork that bottle
    Nothing but self-fulfilling prophecies of carnage.
    In challenge lies opportunity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Floki View Post
    Nothing but self-fulfilling prophecies of carnage.
    k
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

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  8. #8
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    We are well past nonviolent and you well know it.
    No. We are not. All that needs to be done to mass arrest of violent protesters and charging them with felonies. These LARPing activists will give it up if they are doing 5 years in jail.

    Additionally, politicians such as those in Berkeley and Virginia need to be held accountable.

    The nation has survived previous challenges. It can survive this.

    By we may survive it with the end of any form of real democracy. The center may not hold. Rome went about a century from the murder of Tiberas Gracchus to the assassination of Julius Caesar, but rose as a form of monarchy. Not my preferred ending, but better than anarchy and destruction.

    There is still a chance for sanity to be restored.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

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  9. #9
    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    No. We are not. All that needs to be done to mass arrest of violent protesters and charging them with felonies. These LARPing activists will give it up if they are doing 5 years in jail.

    Additionally, politicians such as those in Berkeley and Virginia need to be held accountable.
    And you think either of these things likely?
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

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  10. #10
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    The cops have been gun shy every since the BLM body cam stuff.

    You think they are going to step in to stop fights when they care more about not being pilloried as racist cops than doing their jobs. A fear that is not unreasonable.

    Also, since the cops weren't doing their jobs the oathkeepers started coming out to break up the fights. The oathkeepers are generally far better armed than the police and are folks from military backgrounds.

    When you have that involved, it's a lot harder to say, lets just billy club this whole thing into submission.

    A perfect storm of terrible.
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

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