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  1. #11
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Ayrab View Post
    Personally, I am an indipendent because I am an ultra social conservative, yet a crazy ass economic liberal. Even though I am divided across the spectrum here, I find my vote for Obama an easy one to cast. Sure it does suck to have to vote for only Obama and Mccain if you don't want your vote counting for shit on election day, but that is what you get this late in the game from a two party system. Those who think that voting for the small guy this time around will do anything different then previous times are mistaken. If you want to change the current two party system, you are going to have to start working on that long before ballot day.
    While I'm voting for Obama, I always encourage someone to vote third party if they are totally disgusted with the main two. There is such a thing as a protest vote, but it only gets counted if you actually vote for someone.

    Also the way to think about voting depends on whether you are in a swing state or not. If you are in a swing state then your vote actually may decide the election. If you are in a red or blue state then your vote is really an indicator of which person/party you support. If your state is already decided then in one sense your vote won't decide the election even if you choose Obama or McCain. In this case when you vote for Obama, McCain or someone else you are simply showing support. If enough people start voting for third parties then future candidates will start shifting their positions in order to try to get those votes next time.

    The other group that seems to confuse me, is the hardcore I ain't voting for anyone crew. Like that will show them... It just doesn't make sense to me.
    This is the group that doesn't get it. When you refuse to vote, then you are telling politicians that you don't matter.
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  2. #12
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Ayrab View Post
    See, this is where my issue stems about voting for the smaller parties. People have been voting for third parties over and over and over again and yet we still seem to be stuck with a two party system.

    I don't know who said it, but it seems applicable here: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

    This year, we will be stuck with either Mccain or Obama... end of story. Like I said earlier, this late in the game, voting for a third party will not help your cause at all. Your only option is to choose either of the two, unless you really think that they will do the exact same thing as each other. The question is, if you are forced to choose between two retarded captains to steer the ship, who will it be?

    If the people are really tired and sick of the two party system, then they will rally up to get rid of it. The truth is that people are not sick enough to move on it. If you really want to influence them, then you will get with like minded people and work to change the system in the long run. It will take a lot of time and effort but it will be worth it if you really care. This last minute stuff really doesn't achieve anything.

    I really do hope I am making sense, and I honestly don't mean to offend anyone with this.

    You have it all wrong. When you vote for someone, you are assenting to their legislative power. It is far better to vote for a third party, or not to vote at all, than it is to vote for someone you don't like and wish weren't even nominated. Your mindset (along with criminally unfair and unconstitutional elections laws) prevents third parties from effecting much-needed change in this country. If there is a third party candidate whom you prefer, please vote for him/her.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #13

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    I'm not 100% decided, although I am definitely leaning heavily toward Obama. I think I have a fairly good reason, too. I'm a slightly leaning conservative, but over the last 25 years, the Republican party has abandoned reasonable conservatives and courted the batshit crazy vote - successfully. I'm probably going to vote for Obama, but not because I left the Republicans. They left me. Obama excites me in a way a candidate has not excited me since...*drumroll* John McCain. The 2000 version. Before the body snatchers got him.

    I think not voting is a silly protest, but I think voting for a third party is a valuable protest. I'm sympathetic to claims that the two major parties represent a false choice, and to voters who feel it won't affect them too much either way...you're probably right. But I feel it's a duty...democracy is participatory. Every time you don't exercise your choice you make it easier for petty tyranny to flourish. There has just got to be one candidate that is slightly better for you. Or vote for a third party candidate. Here's the thing - nobody cares if you don't vote. It's a hollow protest. It's not a situation anyone feels compelled to remedy. Less voters to court means less resistance to whatever agenda some candidate wants to push.
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  4. #14
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Hmm, I was thinking about this more. I'm reading some stuff about it not necessarily being apathetic, just frustrated with the whole democratic process

    Some reasons why people aren't voting:

    • Politics is too nasty and brutal
    • Their vote doesn't really mean anything
    • Inundated with information
    • Distrust of the government (especially after disasters like the "stolen" 2000 Election, the War in Iraq, and Hurricane Katrina)
    • Erosion of trust between people and their political leaders (political and corporate scandals a la Enron and Monica Lewinsky)
    • Nearly insurmountable partisanship
    • Voters feel like their representatives aren't really listening to what their needs are and are interested in fulfilling promises to those who fill their coffers
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  5. #15
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    LOL stolen election

  6. #16
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    LOL stolen election
    Count me in on that LOL. That election was settled the way they are supposed to be settled.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #17
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Count me in on that LOL. That election was settled the way they are supposed to be settled.
    Even if it was settled the "right" way, there's still the perception that it wasn't. That's what you're dealing with here is people's perceptions.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #18
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    Yeah. Lot of that going around.

  9. #19
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Even if it was settled the "right" way, there's still the perception that it wasn't. That's what you're dealing with here is people's perceptions.
    Oh, I understand. Still, I will laugh at people who try to maintain that it was stolen.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #20
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post

    I think not voting is a silly protest, but I think voting for a third party is a valuable protest. I'm sympathetic to claims that the two major parties represent a false choice, and to voters who feel it won't affect them too much either way...you're probably right. But I feel it's a duty...democracy is participatory. Every time you don't exercise your choice you make it easier for petty tyranny to flourish.
    I am sympathetic to this view but what about the idea that by participating you lend legitimacy to a process that is run by and for petty tyrants?
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